T Nation

Bodybuilding: Triceps!

One thing I’ve noticed with seeing vids of the big pro bodybuilders, and the vids meat posts is that they all lockout at full extension versus not locking out. That includes db extension variations and push down variations

Benchpressing (in a pure BB’ing context), they don’t typically lockout to keep tension on the chest and tri’s. Ditto shoulder presses.

I don’t see a lot of locking out on skull crusher vids.

Lockout v. not-lockout?

Discuss.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
One thing I’ve noticed with seeing vids of the big pro bodybuilders, and the vids meat posts is that they all lockout at full extension versus not locking out. That includes db extension variations[/quote] Doesn’t Ronnie do his overhead DB ext. non-lockout style? :slight_smile: [quote] and push down variations

Benchpressing (in a pure BB’ing context), they don’t typically lockout to keep tension on the chest and tri’s. Ditto shoulder presses.

I don’t see a lot of locking out on skull crusher vids.

Lockout v. not-lockout?

Discuss.[/quote]

I don’t think it matters all that much unless the ROM is very short or something (3-board presses etc) OR you’re training your lockout specifically…

Imo you can fully flex/stress/whatever your tris just shy of lockout already… There are a bunch of kids at our gym who do machine dips (crappy machine) and lock out their elbows so forcefully that they hyperextend like crazy. Hurts my elbows just watching them do it.

I’m usually just shy of lockout on EZ PJR’s, Lying DB Ext. (DB coming down behind head) etc…

On “close”-grips I lock out fully now (have only been doing that for two years or so since I changed my technique… Rather than fully tucking the elbows all the time, I tuck them on the way down and in the hole and then flare them as I press up, and pull the bar apart… Previously it was full tuck throughout the whole ROM and shy of lockout) because that’s going to be a comp lift for me eventually and you obviously have to lock it out in competition.

On close / neutral grip DB presses (both elbows tucked or just slightly flared) I don’t lock out, just noticed that an hour ago when I last did them… Locking out somehow doesn’t feel right with those, ends up being too much shoulder involvement to bring them up in line with my delts?

I hope you don’t want me to post all my favorite exercises again, I’ve done that about 300 times on this forum within the last few months I think :wink:

Oh well… :

Presses (ALWAYS powerlifting setup for me, i.e. shoulder blades retracted and so on, though not necessarily too much of an arch):

Useful whenever your delts are fried from regular bench or overhead work and you still want to do a tricep press heavy and spare the shoulders(and maybe hit the long head some, which regular presses suck at):
-In-Human and SWRGB, both pressing towards feet as well as up (smith).

Limited ROM work, nice PL assistance…:
-Board Presses (whatever height works for your arm length… Imo better to still have some ROM there if tri size etc is the goal not lockout work…
-Pin Presses (dead stop, reset setup between reps as necessary)

Some oddball stuff:
-JM Presses in HS incline machine (regular incline, not wide)
-Push Presses in the Power Squat machine, lotsa tri and front delt.

I don’t think there’s a tricep press that allows for more weight being used than the PL style close-grip bench (not the elbows flared narrow 6-8 inch grip thing most recommend… Bleh…), basically just a competition style bench (with less arch if you want) with your grip moved in some…

Some guys like incline CGP but for me it’s too much delt involvement vs tris. I don’t think it helps the long head more either. That’s what you get IH/SWRGB and pullover+extension variants for, they actively train the other function of the long head, which incline CGP does not.

Elbow friendly extensions (regular skullcrushers to nose or forehead = elbow death down the road… Same as standing overhead extensions etc) :

-PJR’s (pullover+extension variants, just make sure to set up and execute them so that you’re using mainly your long head for the pullover part, less the lats)… EZ narrow grip lying on bench, BB if your wrists can take it, 2 DB’s or 1 DB in both hands… Whatever.

-Scott Extensions, i.e. leaning away from high cable pulley, elbows tucked and using straight or EZ attachment for a pullover+extension overhead, possibly kneeling with elbows on bench (extension only then)… Or do them like Justin Harris (check youtube) and use a rope attachment to do them elbows flared and as more of a pure extension, more lateral head in there imo.

-Dead Stop Extensions. Can be pure extension or involve a bit of a pullover motion. On bench or ground, bar comes down behind head and rests on ground/bench between reps (dead stop, like deadlifts for the triceps). EZ bar or straight. Again, proper, tight setup is important.

I’d stop all lying extension/pullover-extension variants with upper arms at an angle, not perpendicular to the floor. Bar/DB’s always come down behind head, easier on elbows and = more long head involvement (you already hit the lateral and medial head aplenty on pressing work anyway).
Retracting shoulder blades and tucking elbows on this stuff, even on push/pull+pushdowns feels like it engages the long and medial head much more in my case.
Elbows flared = more lateral head imo… I feel the medial head the most on elbows flared “tate” presses though, but they’re too harsh on my elbows…

And get yourselves some neoprene sleeves, they’re totally worth it.

Sure I forgot some stuff, oh well. Meat has covered everything else probably.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

I hope you don’t want me to post all my favorite exercises again, I’ve done that about 300 times on this forum within the last few months I think :wink:

[/quote]

LMAO! No, hopefully with a ‘triceps compilation’ you won’t HAVE to!

Thanks for your input dude. A lot of guys here (including myself) owe you a protein shake :wink:

[quote]plateau wrote:
Good thread, for me I need to be careful with extension movements PJRs (thanks to the DC boys) and behind the head extensions are fine.

Smith Wide reverse grip presses are a great move, will have to post a vid later as at work.

Pushdowns, machine extension, close grip benching and weighed tricep dips are staples of my tricep training.

Trying to work harder on the lazy (lateral) head at the moment. Anyone else?[/quote]

Imo flared work helps that bugger get big… Harris style scott extensions (youtube Justin Harris Extensions), CGP with elbows flared (I don’t like those though), “pulling the bar apart” on CGP and overhead press… Smith BTN presses from ear level (careful)… DB presses keeping the bells close to the body but still flaring the elbows at least to some degree…

Not sure about reverse one-arm pushdowns (I do them with a pulldown motion and retracted shoulder blades… More long head, easier on the elbows… But I have to sort of bend to the side because otherwise the exercise is too uncomfortable on my wrists), might be worth a try, I don’t do them much… Probably more long/medial head…

Man, I always found them uncomfortable as hell on the elbows when doing them the way Tate describes… Gotta try 'em your way next friday…

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

-Scott Extensions, i.e. leaning away from high cable pulley, elbows tucked and using straight or EZ attachment for a pullover+extension overhead, possibly kneeling with elbows on bench (extension only then)… Or do them like Justin Harris (check youtube) and use a rope attachment to do them elbows flared and as more of a pure extension, more lateral head in there imo.
[/quote]

Justin Harris:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

-Scott Extensions, i.e. leaning away from high cable pulley, elbows tucked and using straight or EZ attachment for a pullover+extension overhead, possibly kneeling with elbows on bench (extension only then)… Or do them like Justin Harris (check youtube) and use a rope attachment to do them elbows flared and as more of a pure extension, more lateral head in there imo.
[/quote]

[/quote] There I’d definitely not lock out… Don’t see the point.

Nice for the lateral head imo…

Btw, the scott version can be done standing… There’s a famous pic of the Barbarian Brothers (peter and paul or whatever their names were) doing them… One of the brothers is standing on the stack :slight_smile:

No idea how the other brother managed to do the exercise without falling over backwards… Those guys were badass.
Whatever happened to them?

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
This lil’ guy doing some triceps work:


[/quote]

I think Frank had recently torn one of his tris there… He could do 405 or more for 8-12 or so at ~255 lbs (5’11) I think… With somewhat flared elbows and a somewhat closer grip than I’d use, no arch etc… Not exactly shabby. Super smooth execution too.

More Justing Harris (rev. grip B.P):

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
The “PJR Pullover”

C_C has described these in many places. Here is vid.

Somewhere he said these are one of the only thing that gives him DOMS. Truth.

C_C, commentary?[/quote]

I would stop with upper arms at an angle, not perpendicular to the floor… Could use a little more control on the negative and turnaround considering that he is going that far down (you can tear a long head there if you jerk out of the stretch, esp. if you previously lost your tightness).

Doing them with an EZ bar and narrow grip, I’d lie on the bench rather than across the bench and use somewhat less ROM (I think, it’s not like I get to view myself in third person view doing them after all, gotta make a vid sometime)… EZ bar allows for a more forceful execution…

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I would stop with upper arms at an angle, not perpendicular to the floor… Could use a little more control on the negative and turnaround considering that he is going that far down (you can tear a long head there if you jerk out of the stretch, esp. if you previously lost your tightness).

Doing them with an EZ bar and narrow grip, I’d lie on the bench rather than across the bench and use somewhat less ROM (I think, it’s not like I get to view myself in third person view doing them after all, gotta make a vid sometime)… EZ bar allows for a more forceful execution…
[/quote]

I lie on one of those adjustable benches set at the lowest incline and do them. Unless your tall enough that your head is at or slightly past the edge you sort of have to use your legs to get you head up there for the set.

I think it gets the best of both worlds, you don’t let your arms go perpendicular to the floor and you get a better ROM than lying on the bench [I can get my arms further back].

But you know more than me about this exercise, and I’m using not much weight on it right now. Do you think this could work?

If you’re using 45lb plates, then I guess esp. people with longer arms would hit the floor on PJR’s off a regular flat bench… I go with 10Kg plates rather than the full plates so ROM is no problem for me on a flat bench and with my arm length…

As long as the exercise feels right and doesn’t bother your shoulders or anything like that, I don’t see why it shouldn’t work alright the way you do them.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
If you’re using 45lb plates, then I guess esp. people with longer arms would hit the floor on PJR’s off a regular flat bench… I go with 10Kg plates rather than the full plates so ROM is no problem for me on a flat bench and with my arm length…

As long as the exercise feels right and doesn’t bother your shoulders or anything like that, I don’t see why it shouldn’t work alright the way you do them.
[/quote]

Thanks bud.

C_C, I have to thank you for the PJR recommendation. I’ve only recently added them, but so far so good. I’m also thankful that you talked about using the EZ bar. The dbs at my gym only go up to 125 and I was worried about being limited with my progression.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]plateau wrote:
Good thread, for me I need to be careful with extension movements PJRs (thanks to the DC boys) and behind the head extensions are fine.

Smith Wide reverse grip presses are a great move, will have to post a vid later as at work.

Pushdowns, machine extension, close grip benching and weighed tricep dips are staples of my tricep training.

Trying to work harder on the lazy (lateral) head at the moment. Anyone else?[/quote]

Imo flared work helps that bugger get big… Harris style scott extensions (youtube Justin Harris Extensions), CGP with elbows flared (I don’t like those though), “pulling the bar apart” on CGP and overhead press… Smith BTN presses from ear level (careful)… DB presses keeping the bells close to the body but still flaring the elbows at least to some degree…

Not sure about reverse one-arm pushdowns (I do them with a pulldown motion and retracted shoulder blades… More long head, easier on the elbows… But I have to sort of bend to the side because otherwise the exercise is too uncomfortable on my wrists), might be worth a try, I don’t do them much… Probably more long/medial head…

[/quote]

Thanks for the input CC!

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

I hope you don’t want me to post all my favorite exercises again, I’ve done that about 300 times on this forum within the last few months I think :wink:

[/quote]

LMAO! No, hopefully with a ‘triceps compilation’ you won’t HAVE to!

Thanks for your input dude. A lot of guys here (including myself) owe you a protein shake ;)[/quote]
Damn C_C I just want to tell you that I really thank you for taking the time to type out your posts. And steely, dude these latest threads that you have been making are definetely some of the best I have seen in a while

dips are as good as anything honestly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clldwFLL-2w

I was looking for some vids of really big people doing some triceps work, but all I could find was this guy:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
“The Power Pushdown”

I know, I know, this guy is just a tiny, weak little thing, but he puts on a damn good show…


[/quote]

That dude behind him. Before he starts doing pullups you can see his face and he looks like a fucktard.

Lol what a loser.
[/quote]

Hmnnn You know, I see a lot of guys doing that at the gym, with obviously no intention of powerlifting, just trying to move too much weight to impress their buddies. I have done it myself a few times trying to really just power some weight, but to be honest, I always end up thinking “why don’t I just do some close grip benches, if I’m feeling this in my tris and chest anyway?”. I’m sure it will fit in somewhere, even if BBing is the goal, I just hope people realize where (I like the guy’s comments about what people on youtube will say -lol).

I’m thinking that this would probably be good as a finishing exercise, to just toast whatever’s left (I like to do standing push presses at the END of my shoulder session for a similar approach).

S
[/quote]

Well I discovered this way of doing pushdowns to avoid elbow problems, and then soon after saw a video of Kevin Levrone doing them in a similar fashion. Personally I don’t feel any chest involvement, and also it’s a lot safer than a close grip bench (in that I can fail a rep without getting stuck)… though it can be hard to get into position at heavier weights which was usually the limiting factor in how heavy I could go. Anyway, I feel them a lot more in my triceps than regular pushdowns and CGBPs, the only problem with them since I changed gyms is that I can’t add extra weight to the stack.