They did not train during but, they were weightlifting individuals.
From the link.
"Participants.
The participants were healthy men, 18–35 yr of age, with prior weight-lifting experience and normal testosterone levels. "
Quite right. I missed that, and will edit my comment accordingly.
sigh
another thread ruined by pointless steroid discussion…
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You think “7.5 pounds gain of fat free mass in 5 months without even doing any weightlifting whatsoever with very low protein intake even by our standards” is mild?
That is a completely different looking person.
**I did not bring up the whole enhanced crap, Brick did. I just called him out on it.
Did I just write that when we had this exchange? You’re either deliberately misquoting me or you only read what you wanted to read. The description of you in my previous post is sounding even more fitting, isn’t it?
Same aforementioned argument. Absurd as usual.
Again, I did not bring it up Brick did in trying to make some…point?
And in respect to this thread it does apply, as maybe just maybe training should be approached differently by those who are true? naturals.
CT dropping bombs…
Here’s a sneak peek…
The number one mistake made by natural trainees
I believe that the main mistake someone training without the help of performance enhancing drugs can make is to do too much volume.
The whole purpose of training to build muscle is to trigger protein synthesis. Once it’s been triggered there is no added benefit to continuing punishing a muscle, it will not grow more. In fact, it will grow less and might even lose size!
The key to growth is having the biggest difference between protein synthesis (building muscle) and protein breakdown (mobilizing amino acids from muscles for energy). The more volume you do, the more protein breakdown you get. Why? Because the more volume you do the more glycogen you need to burn for fuel.
What does this have to do about protein breakdown? Plenty!
When you have to mobilize stored glycogen you need to increase the release of cortisol. Basically during training cortisol’s role is to mobilize energy to be used for fuel.
The more fuel you need, the greater the cortisol release.
So the more volume you do, the more glycogen you need to burn, the greater the cortisol release.
And cortisol also comes with a drawback: it can hurt muscle growth. It does so 3 ways:
By increasing the breakdown of amino acids from muscles… basically cortisol breaks down muscle tissue to turn it into fuel. That’s why we say that cortisol is a catabolic hormone.
By inhibiting mTor. MTor is the light switch that turns on protein synthesis (muscle building). Cortisol can inhibit mTor directly and my increasing the level of AMPK. So the more cortisol you produce, the more likely you are to negate the effect of training on protein synthesis. Basically mTor will turn on muscle-building, cortisol can turn it off
Cortisol and other glucocorticoids increase the expression of the myostatin gene. Myostatin expression limits the amount of muscle you build. The more myostatin expression you have, the less muscle you build. High cortisol levels, and thus a high volume of work, lead to a greater myostatin expression during the recovery period after a workout.
So what we want is to trigger mTor/protein synthesis but also keep cortisol release as low as possible to maximize the growth stimulus. This means that volume must be kept low.
It also means that since you can’t afford to do a lot of volume you have to make sure that the volume you do is done at an intensity level that will trigger mTor activation.
Note that enhanced (drug-using) bodybuilders do not have that same problem.
Enhanced bodybuilder do not need to stimulate protein synthesis with the session: the anabolic hormones they are taking artificially increase protein synthesis 24/7. As such doing too much volume will not have the same negative impact as for a natural trainee.
Distinction without difference.
I doubt you have any intention of accepting anything not in line with your beliefs and, quite frankly, I’m tired of this. I’m not going into this anymore with someone. This is not the first time I am having such an exchange.
So… just go inject and see what happens in 5 months or whatever timeframe you want. Then we can talk.
What was the point? He’s close enough to not being enhanced. If you were talking to Bostin Lloyd that would be a different story.
Naturals are agreeing with him. Even if an assisted bodybuilder who is 250lbs in contest shape had created this thread, why would you assume that person didn’t train and build a good foundation of mass naturally prior to steroid use? You think enhanced bodybuilders all started training on DAY 1 while juiced to the gills?
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Great way to derail an awesome thread by thoroughly cluttering it with near entire or entire articles on something other than BB training. Very helpful!
This was the last time I swear lol. Not getting into this shit anymore unless someone uninformed seriously exaggerates their effects and we have more noobs in the steroid forum posting, “I’m 150lbs. Been training for 6 months. I just want to do 1 cycle to gain 30lbs and reach my genetic limit then I’ll just maintain naturally!” after reading it.
Then what is the point of this thread? There are no questions, just a list of what Brick believes should be done. Does he want a pat on the back or for it to be made a sticky?
It was not until seraphim chimed in with the naturals talk that people started posting.
I will also add that everything he has posted as well as comments like “I dont care what science says” and “What do these researchers look like” is exactly the stuff Professor X would write. The very same stuff that had people jumping down his throat and eventually kicked out. Anyone remember the" What naturals can achieve" thread?
Yeah, and I’m someone with a masters in nutrition and exercise physiology and an undergrad in nutrition and dietetics and am an RD. I’ve read quite a lot of studies to even earn such credentials. It’s also how I learned most studies are of little use for bodybuilding. I don’t want pats on the back but to actually discuss BB training.
Also, no one here discredits other methods.
And DT is correct. No one here is trying to crash natural shows. I’ll be competing in the ANBF, which is the only natural organization that allows TRT patients to compete with medical documentation, and the NPC. I’ll compete where I must and to remain honest.
Where is he dropping these bombs? He is suddenly starting to sound reasonable to me.
Bombs of knowledge bro. Bombs of knowledge.
Thanks, i shall have a read.
I didn’t quote you at all. I thought I was being pretty generous in my summary of your reply
I quite like your contributions to this forum and you’re a knowledgable guy who I dont dount has gotten good results but you seem pretty insecure about the whole steroid thing.
I wont pretend that I’ve read all your thoughts but most of your replies are sarcasm, the experience angle and just diversions.
Which is fine but what personal experience do you have with injecting yourself with PEDs with little to no training? By your own standards, you’d have to admit you have zero basis to argue on this.
I would like you to present some evidence, shit I’ll take a case study, where some poor bastard was injected with a shit tonne of roids and experienced every single impact except a shred of muscle gain.
We get it, PED use can be used to undermine what you achieved but that argument only has merit amongst underachievers, so I wouldn’t let it get to me.
Unreal… Unreal… Unreal