I wanted to revive this thread because the old one is locked. I am going to repost the original post from that thread here.
Dirty Tiger:
"I know we have a Anabolic Diet thread on the S&N forum.
Unfortunately that forum has turned into fat-loss cult.
The AD thread is glutted with people who follow the diet for two weeks then jump into thread posting about how awesome it is to eat bacon all day…then they vanish.
I wanna know if any of you bodybuilding types have used the diet long-term to gain mass.( Or if you’ve tried it and think it sucks!)
I am interested in reading about how you manage your carb levels.
I’ve read the book and I’ve browsed the AD thread, it seems like most people (in that thread) are staying under 30 grams of carbs well past the induction phase.
It seems like they are more intrested in dropping or maintaining weight as opposed to mass building."
I will be restarting the Anabolic Diet next Monday. I am taking the next year to get ready for the NPC Southern Classic next June. I plan on using the Anabolic diet the entire time and will be logging my journey in my training log, here:
I usually follow the Anabolic diet but I have been more relaxed with my nutrition since last October when my wife became pregnant. Our son is now almost 3 weeks old and I know that it’s time to lock down and put in some work.
I hope that there are others competing in physique sports on T-Nation that can share their experiences here.
Hopefully this thread won’t just consist of me talking to myself.
For my intra-workout drink I currently only use amino acids. My blend is 10g each of Creatine/BCAA/EAA/Glutamine/Glycine. This way I can ensure that I’m initiating protein synthesis and getting an insulin spike in order help build/maintain muscle.
My training is currently 7 days per week and split up like this:
Monday- Legs
Tuesday-Chest
Wednesday- Back
Thursday- Legs
Friday- Chest
Saturday- Back
Sunday- Arms
Some of this is based off of John Meadows principles, some of it is just pure volume work. My recovery has been stretched thin lately with having a newborn so I’m not pushing the intensity like Meadows recommends. I still feel like I’m having good workouts even though I’m not killing myself. Sometimes I feel that it’s better to have consistent, moderate intensity training, and then go crazy on days that you feel good. This is especially true while dieting or transitioning to a low carb diet. Dan John refers to these as “punch the clock workouts”.
[quote]Zach Rounsaville wrote:
Hopefully this thread won’t just consist of me talking to myself.
[/quote]
[quote]Zach Rounsaville wrote:
The AD thread is glutted with people who follow the diet for two weeks then jump into thread posting about how awesome it is to eat bacon all day…then they vanish.
[/quote]
Well I didn’t comment at first because I just started about 8 weeks ago and you called out all Anabolic-noobs.
I am currently running a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet but I only have a carb-up once per weekend for a 6 hour window instead of the anabolic protocol. I’m not trying to lose weight or anything I have just found that a shorter window of carb-gluttony works better for me and from the research I have read I should still be getting all the benefits.
I also don’t eat a lot of bacon. I used to be a bacon whore in the past when running a CKD but have found that too many sulfites gives me heart burn like no other.
My numbers are climbing in the gym and I do enjoy the sh*t out of steak, bratwursts, bone in pork chops, and whole chickens on a regular basis. I don’t take a BCAA slurry during my workouts but I usually have 2 scoops of protein powder 60-90 minutes before I hit the gym to make sure I have plenty of aminos in the system.
I ran AD for just over 9 months about ten years ago. Love it, but my wife is vegetarian and I was getting tired of the greasy mess in the oven.
Bacon all day, yeah. Like above, the heartburns… I kept it to mornings only and bought a low sodium/sulfite kind.
My carb window was almost like JLone. Started Saturday morning and ended with a oatmeal breakfast on Sunday morning. I think I did two Wednesday carb day. Yeah, the first few weeks I binged. Felt like crap, repeat. Then I cleaned up the carbs (oatmeal, potatoes, stayed away from breads and refined shit) and felt much better.
For supplements, I only used Leucine. And extra fiber, of course. I also preferred Casein protein. Whey left me hungry and not feeling all that good.
side note, I tried bulking, but failed. I just could not keep with that much food. Back then, I had calculated at around 9k (I think, it’s been a while).
[quote]Zach Rounsaville wrote:
Hopefully this thread won’t just consist of me talking to myself.
[/quote]
[quote]Zach Rounsaville wrote:
The AD thread is glutted with people who follow the diet for two weeks then jump into thread posting about how awesome it is to eat bacon all day…then they vanish.
[/quote]
Well I didn’t comment at first because I just started about 8 weeks ago and you called out all Anabolic-noobs.
I am currently running a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet but I only have a carb-up once per weekend for a 6 hour window instead of the anabolic protocol. I’m not trying to lose weight or anything I have just found that a shorter window of carb-gluttony works better for me and from the research I have read I should still be getting all the benefits.
I also don’t eat a lot of bacon. I used to be a bacon whore in the past when running a CKD but have found that too many sulfites gives me heart burn like no other.
My numbers are climbing in the gym and I do enjoy the sh*t out of steak, bratwursts, bone in pork chops, and whole chickens on a regular basis. I don’t take a BCAA slurry during my workouts but I usually have 2 scoops of protein powder 60-90 minutes before I hit the gym to make sure I have plenty of aminos in the system. [/quote]
The thing about Anabolic-noobs and the bacon thing were from me quoting the original post from the original Bodybuilding on the Anabolic Diet thread. I appreciate everyone’s responses and I hope to keep a discussion going on this thread.
[quote]JFG wrote:
I ran AD for just over 9 months about ten years ago. Love it, but my wife is vegetarian and I was getting tired of the greasy mess in the oven.
Bacon all day, yeah. Like above, the heartburns… I kept it to mornings only and bought a low sodium/sulfite kind.
My carb window was almost like JLone. Started Saturday morning and ended with a oatmeal breakfast on Sunday morning. I think I did two Wednesday carb day. Yeah, the first few weeks I binged. Felt like crap, repeat. Then I cleaned up the carbs (oatmeal, potatoes, stayed away from breads and refined shit) and felt much better.
For supplements, I only used Leucine. And extra fiber, of course. I also preferred Casein protein. Whey left me hungry and not feeling all that good.
side note, I tried bulking, but failed. I just could not keep with that much food. Back then, I had calculated at around 9k (I think, it’s been a while).[/quote]
Yeah, I always keep my carbs gluten-free and usually dairy-free, sometimes grain-free. Are you saying your weekdays were 9k or just the carb-up weekend? I’d be interested to see what your menu looked like back then if you still have a record of it.
9k was the fat/protein day. I didn’t count calories on the week end. I just ate like a human being, kept clean carbs (most of the time, pizza is still a favourite), meat proteins (funny, I do not remember ever having a shake on the carb up days) and low fats. Favourite Sunday breakfast was 1 cup of oatmeal, lots of blueberries, skim milk. Yummy.
My menu was not complicated. Breakfast was 8-10 slices of bacon, 6 eggs and some brie cheese (you know, the triple cream stuff). I usually mixed some spinach in my eggs (scrambled). Snack was nuts or a glass of cream or a shot of EVOO. Lunch was a salad (EVOO and Balsamic), half chicken (don’t like skin, so didn’t eat it). Dinner, well, you name it. Steak, pork, chicken, turkey, salmon, tuna with broccoli and/or cauliflower in butter. Im a chef by trade, so recipe was never an issue.
I enjoyed garlic coil and cheese as a snack also. But again, carful with processed meats. Jerky has too much sugar.
Menu didn’t change much, just the portion size.
MD before bed with a shot of EVOO.
yes, I even shot back a few EVOO during the day, straight up, to add calories.
Having run the AD for the better part of 3yrs I have come to the following conclusions based on my bodys reaction to adjustments
cutting is better to keep cals @ a 1000cal deficit daily & keep protien at 50% most days in the week… not sure if theres any real difference between 30 & 50g of carbs Also 1 ccarb day is plenty on a cut… The cleaner the better but thats probably obviouse
when bulking 2 carb days plus a mid week carb spike works well. I could never really cram down 20-25 x BW but with 1000 extra cals a day I saw nice results
Last time I ran the AD bulk phase I ran it with the 5/3/1 boring but big program + 20-30 min of cardio M-SU I was able to pack on 10-12lbs over 4 months not bad considering I wasnt juicing
IMO the AD is nice for bulking becuase you get the protien in very easy and with out all the carbs you dont feel gassy bloated & tired all the time. But its not for everyone sum do better w carbs… You look like you know what your doing just curouise why lift 7 days even God had a rest day… Also isnt the whole idea of the AD to boost natural HGH & test. As I read it the off days match the carb days so you can take advantage of the insulin and HGH pump and recover/re-build.
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Having run the AD for the better part of 3yrs I have come to the following conclusions based on my bodys reaction to adjustments
cutting is better to keep cals @ a 1000cal deficit daily & keep protien at 50% most days in the week… not sure if theres any real difference between 30 & 50g of carbs Also 1 ccarb day is plenty on a cut… The cleaner the better but thats probably obviouse
when bulking 2 carb days plus a mid week carb spike works well. I could never really cram down 20-25 x BW but with 1000 extra cals a day I saw nice results
Last time I ran the AD bulk phase I ran it with the 5/3/1 boring but big program + 20-30 min of cardio M-SU I was able to pack on 10-12lbs over 4 months not bad considering I wasnt juicing
IMO the AD is nice for bulking becuase you get the protien in very easy and with out all the carbs you dont feel gassy bloated & tired all the time. But its not for everyone sum do better w carbs… You look like you know what your doing just curouise why lift 7 days even God had a rest day… Also isnt the whole idea of the AD to boost natural HGH & test. As I read it the off days match the carb days so you can take advantage of the insulin and HGH pump and recover/re-build.[/quote]
Hey thehebrewhero, do you keep calories at the same amount throughout an entire cutting period?
For example, someone may spend 12 weeks cutting and keep calories at 3,000 everyday all week for all 12 weeks.
Also, is this 1,000 calorie deficit a 1,000 calories less than maintenance or 1,000 calories less than when bulking? I’m sure it’s based off maintenance but just want clarification.
1000 Less than maintenece Also I adjust my deficit every 4 weeks or every 5lbs which ever comes first
So for example my BMR is 1700 my TDEE is 2700 based on a moderate activity level so I aim to eat 1700-2000 cals When I do this I can generally drop 1-2 lbs every week…
When bulking I do just the oposite I try to eat 3000-3700 cals
If I follow the AD formula I would eat 180x20 which is 3600 or 180x25 which is 4500 I cant eat that much and IMO unless training 4-6hrs a day you could turn into a fat ass on the 25xBW rule
As far as cutting 15x BW just doest do it 10-12 works best for me
This could be just “bro science” but IMO the AD works best for heavy weights ie everyone over 200 lbs The reason I think that is becuase as I’ve gotten bigger I’ve noticed the program get easier and work better. When I started it I was 160lbs now I hang at 180 my goal is 200 at some point
This was my nutrition last week:
Pre-workout: Coffee and 50g of my amino acid blend
Meal 1- 10oz pork shoulder, veggies
Meal 2- 10oz pork shoulder, veggies
Meal 3- 10oz pork shoulder, veggies
Meal 4- 12 eggs, 5g coconut oil or bacon fat, veggies
Meal 5- 2 scoops whey isolate, 2 Tbsp natty PB, 3g fish oil
This put me at 3623kcal, 350 protein, 240 fat, plus veggies
I lost 5lbs last week with this (from 238 down to 233).
This will be my nutrition for this week. I may tweak it some because I’ve been unusually hungry.
Intra-workout: Caffeine and 50g of my amino acid blend
Meal 1- 5oz chicken breast, 5oz chicken thigh, 15g EVOO, veggies
Meal 2- 5oz chicken breast, 5oz chicken thigh, 15g EVOO, veggies
Meal 3- 5oz chicken breast, 5oz chicken thigh, 15g EVOO, veggies
Meal 4- 12 eggs, 20g coconut oil or bacon fat, veggies
Meal 5- 30g Whey Isolate, 3 Tbsp natty PB, 3g fish oil
This puts me at 3403kcal, 350 protein, 200 fat, plus veggies.
Wow thats a lot of food… Whats your macro percents on low carb days? Are you doing 1 or 2 carb up days? What do you weigh in LBs… 5lbs is nice so it seems you dialed it in just right
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Wow thats a lot of food… Whats your macro percents on low carb days? Are you doing 1 or 2 carb up days? What do you weigh in LBs… 5lbs is nice so it seems you dialed it in just right [/quote]
My percentages last week were 60% Fat, 40% Protein.
This week the percentages are 54% Fat, 46% Protein.
I just do one carb up day, Saturdays.
I started at 238lbs and now I’m down to 233lb, so my calories are around 14-15 kcal per pound.
I noticed something odd between this week and last week. Last week my meat was all pork shoulder and I was almost having to force myself to eat because I wasn’t getting hungry. This week with only a 200 calorie drop and close to the same macros, I’m hungry all day because I switched my meat to chicken. I’m going back to pork next week for sure!
[quote]Zach Rounsaville wrote:
I noticed something odd between this week and last week. Last week my meat was all pork shoulder and I was almost having to force myself to eat because I wasn’t getting hungry. This week with only a 200 calorie drop and close to the same macros, I’m hungry all day because I switched my meat to chicken. I’m going back to pork next week for sure![/quote]
I’m the opposite when it comes to pork sausage and chicken.
I can grill a 24 ounce package of bratwurst and eat when all in one sitting with a little dijon mustard. If I grill 24 ounces of chicken breast up I won’t even eat half of it. I end up force feeding myself chicken breast smothered in blue cheese dressing mixed with Frank’s Red Hot.
Red meat falls somewhere in the middle for me. A nicely cooked steak always sounds good but burgers need cheese and even then they don’t blow my skirt up.
Low-Carb days look like:
Morning fasted dog walking (about 3 miles, 210 foot elevation change)
Meal 1- Low-Carb protein shake
Meal 2- 6 eggs fried in 2 Tbs spoons of coconut oil or butter
Meal 3- Low carb protein shake
Gym - No supplements, Shake was about 60-90 minutes beforehand
Meal 4- 16-24 ounces of meat, low carb dressing or hot sauce, fiber supplement, and Animal Pak
Meal 5- 4 ounces of cheese, dealers choice
This put me at 3500 calories daily with a minimum of 230 grams of protein.
The ratio of fat/protein changes based on the meat I choose to eat for dinner. Days I eat chicken are much higher protein than days I eat sausage or ground chuck.
[quote]Zach Rounsaville wrote:
I noticed something odd between this week and last week. Last week my meat was all pork shoulder and I was almost having to force myself to eat because I wasn’t getting hungry. This week with only a 200 calorie drop and close to the same macros, I’m hungry all day because I switched my meat to chicken. I’m going back to pork next week for sure![/quote]
I’m the opposite when it comes to pork sausage and chicken.
I can grill a 24 ounce package of bratwurst and eat when all in one sitting with a little dijon mustard. If I grill 24 ounces of chicken breast up I won’t even eat half of it. I end up force feeding myself chicken breast smothered in blue cheese dressing mixed with Frank’s Red Hot.
Red meat falls somewhere in the middle for me. A nicely cooked steak always sounds good but burgers need cheese and even then they don’t blow my skirt up. [/quote]
That’s probably a simple matter of bratwurst being 1 million times more delicious than chicken breast. Plus it’s lower protein. If you don’t care much for burgers then the meat you use is probably too lean, you overcook it, or both. I like to keep my burgers pink and I really don’t care if they bleed a little.
