T Nation

Bodybuilding & Junk Food


#1

Hey all, I had posted this question on this site before (for ShadowPro), and wanted to get some alternate feedback: What is the unbridled truth to the statement that while you see many bodybuilders promote the tuna, chicken breast, oatmeal, rice and broccoli diet that they actually eat the furthest thing from this type of diet, in order to achieve their "massive" success?

Basically I'm at my wits end with the bf; he insists that the old Muscle & Fitness promotion of clean dieting is pure marketing BS to teens who don't know any better, and that the big names eat nothing like that (mentions Lee Priest and similar folks who are well known for their junk food filled diets).

I understand that there are mass phases when the diet is loosened up, and that the drugs these guys take allow them to virtually eat anything and everything during the offseason, but is it true that many follow this gluttonous approach and eat like that most of the time?

Don't want to start a pie throwing fight here (no pun intended), just curious to hear people's views and have a discussion of what the truth is.

Anyone here have any first hand accounts of this from talking, listening and watching any pros?

(FYI: My guy says he has seen Ronnie up front and personal at expos back in 2003 or so, and that he was literally eating one McDonald's hamburger after another with fries and other such things.)

Thanks,

Theresa


#2

[quote]TheresaACP wrote:
Hey all, I had posted this question on this site before (for ShadowPro), and wanted to get some alternate feedback: What is the unbridled truth to the statement that while you see many bodybuilders promote the tuna, chicken breast, oatmeal, rice and broccoli diet that they actually eat the furthest thing from this type of diet, in order to achieve their “massive” success?

Basically I’m at my wits end with the bf; he insists that the old Muscle & Fitness promotion of clean dieting is pure marketing BS to teens who don’t know any better, and that the big names eat nothing like that (mentions Lee Priest and similar folks who are well known for their junk food filled diets).

I understand that there are mass phases when the diet is loosened up, and that the drugs these guys take allow them to virtually eat anything and everything during the offseason, but is it true that many follow this gluttonous approach and eat like that most of the time?

Don’t want to start a pie throwing fight here (no pun intended), just curious to hear people’s views and have a discussion of what the truth is.

Anyone here have any first hand accounts of this from talking, listening and watching any pros?

(FYI: My guy says he has seen Ronnie up front and personal at expos back in 2003 or so, and that he was literally eating one McDonald’s hamburger after another with fries and other such things.)

Thanks,

Theresa
[/quote]

I think there is a radical difference between off-season and in-season dieting combined with personal cravings as well as personal strategies.

Some bodybuilders eat clean year round and stay pretty (relatively) lean even in the off-season. Some bodybuilders in the off-season baloon up in weight because they believe they have to to gain more muscle or maybe soemthing as simple as they enjoy food! Some bodybuilders can eat the same plain diet year round and not care.

Everyone is different. Some don’t mind dieting down a ton while others prefer not to have to focus so much on cutting phases. I know, more a non-answer, but I don’t know if there a “truth” to it. People ought to do what works for them. IMO, half the battle is actually doing it, not necessarily the small details of it.


#3

Personally, I don’t know how great it is for one to pack it on and strip it all over and over (not to mention how miserable an existence it is). But if your goal is to look a particular way on a particular day you need to do what works for you and this is one protocol.

That said, I think it’s a mistake to look at what genetic freaks are doing on a carb up a day before competing and applying it across the board. Most of the elite are sticking within 10-15% of their (pre-water cut) stage weight nowadays (which is still 40 lbs granted).

There’s also the very real possibility of never leaning down which nobody ever believes will be them but the number of folks who never get there is astonishing, especially when added to the folks who manage to lean down but then balloon out never to be lean again.

Now, in the end, these are his risks to take. Let him make his decision and then support the bastard, this is difficult enough a lifestyle without someone on your arse about it all the time


#4

[quote]TheresaACP wrote:
Basically I’m at my wits end with the bf; he insists that the old Muscle & Fitness promotion of clean dieting is pure marketing BS to teens who don’t know any better, and that the big names eat nothing like that (mentions Lee Priest and similar folks who are well known for their junk food filled diets).

I understand that there are mass phases when the diet is loosened up, and that the drugs these guys take allow them to virtually eat anything and everything during the offseason, but is it true that many follow this gluttonous approach and eat like that most of the time?..

Anyone here have any first hand accounts of this from talking, listening and watching any pros?[/quote]

I’ll let other chime in re: what the pros actually do.

As far as the “general truth” of the matter goes, it ultimately boils down to individual genetics (yet again) and its influence on stuff like carbs tolerance/insulin sensitivity/bodyfat setpoints and so on.

And while it can be interesting to observe and learn from others’ approaches, there’s simply no substitute for individual trial-and-error and truly learning what works best for YOU.

Somewhere along the journey, people come to embrace this fact (and it sounds like your bf isn’t quite there yet).


#5

the pros eat clean 90% of the time


#6

Some good points, thanks all.

Yeah, supporting hard headedness can be a bit trying and even laughable sometimes. Thing is that he and his bros justify bad eating habits because juice negates so much of the bad stuff that comes with it. No doubt no natural could pull that off without wrecking their body and looking like a beached whale.

I mean come on, eating an equivalent amount of calories and carbs from good food, fruits and nuts can easily replicate the macro content of that crap; why eat bad and not learn to eat right? There are quality high calorie and high carb food sources that won’t devastate your health long term - and may even offset some of the bad that the PED’s do - if you just develop a taste for these instead. I’m 5’8" and 148 lbs, very lean, and don’t always feeling like eating.

But I could easily drink 600-800 calories in a healthy smoothie or protein shake multiple times a day. The thought of eating what these guys eat makes me queasy, and if they promote this with their size to impressionable youngsters and tell them to eat big to get big I’d get upset and tell those kids the truth. I have zero tolerance for that, unless they also inform them that they use drugs and that’s why they eat that way (and I’m not cool with promoting that either, though it’s an individual choice for adults only). But I’m wandering from the topic.

Still, it’s funny listening to YouTube BB blowhards talk about eating Pop-Tarts, maple syrup and pancakes, ice cream, donuts and such. What would these clowns do without drugs to make up for it I don’t know, it would be such a different game. And yes there are such people who are massively jacked promoting exactly that, it’s not just some off season treat or only 10% of their diet, as many of these guys eat that to pack in the calories.

Perfect example: I was just watching a clip with him yesterday of a guy named Kali Muscle talking about eating high-sodium (MSG)Raman noodles, Coca-Cola and making a 10,000 calorie cake consisting of crushed $1 brand cookies, soda and cookie cream and peanut butter icing, where he claims he’s a big man and eats that whole thing by all himself in one meal or in one day. Seriously? He is massive and ripped, but if that was his honest proposal for young people on a budget to get their high calorie fix (for building monster muscle) then I feel bad for anyone taking him seriously and following that advice.

Maybe I’m just venting some release here, but do any of you find this stuff disturbing?

What a world it is out there sometimes in this so called sport.


#7

I think it all depends on the individual and their goals, to an extent. In college I ate horribly, but then again I loved food and could get away with it because A) no one expected nor necessarily wanted a defensive tackle to be under 18-20% bodyfat and B) when you’re on the field 15+ hours a week not including the weight room you can get away with bad nutrition. I didn’t care about being lean, I just wanted to be big and strong and my “diet” allowed me to do that.

On a flipside, after college ball I still ate like that and stopped training and I blew up! When I decided to make a change and go back to training it became apparent real quick that no way I could eat that way and be anywhere near under 20% BF with a desk job and only going the gym 5 days a week. So, now I eat “clean”.

Ignoring “it will wreck your metabolism down the line”, some guys can just eat what they want and some guys can’t. If you want to step on stage, heck yeah eat clean for the most part, why would you want to have to cut longer than you had to because you ate candy bars all offseason? On the flipside, if you just want to be “big and strong”, then yeah you can get away with not eating as clean.

Basically, I think it really boils down to metabolism + goals + how you want to eat. Some guys could eat canned tuna and boiled chicken with spinach all day and not care, other guys want dessert and burgers etc all time. Just find the “balance” for your goals.


#8

I don’t know about the pros but if you’re taking drugs keep in mind they will negatively impact your lipids . Junk food will only exacerbate this affect.

Another question to ask: What does the blood work of the average drug using pro look like? If it’s poor do you really want to emulate what they do?


#9

I’ve limited experience and certainly none around pros. But I have socialised with lower level competing bodybuilders and most eat a solid/reasonable enough diet. What makes them different, IMO, is that their superior genetics enables them to get to this status without over-thinking nutrition, e.g. tons of gluten like sandwiches, other inflammatory foods like milk, and sometime rubbish protein supplements.

I will only mention one extreme example of a young guy who had excellent genetics that I used to work with. I used to train with him to give him an intro to weights. When he first came to the gym we used to laugh at him struggle under the bar but within weeks his strength levels soared and soon he was matching me on many lifts, which was very embarrassing. Now his diet was ridiculous, skipping breakfast, mid-morning bacon rolls, fish and chips for lunch, cream cakes mid-afternoon. For dinner, he had the Chinese takeaway on speed dial and literally ordered the same meal every night: which was greasy fried chicken rice and chips. Yet he was completely ripped, while I sat eating my cold chicken and pasta wondering where it all went wrong!


#10

Cold chicken… Breast?
And pasta?

No need to wonder what was wrong then


#11

[quote]tontongg wrote:
Cold chicken… Breast?
And pasta?

No need to wonder what was wrong then[/quote]

Haha, did I mention the brown rice? No doubt brain washed by the muscle mags of the 1990s.


#12

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
I’ve limited experience and certainly none around pros. But I have socialised with lower level competing bodybuilders and most eat a solid/reasonable enough diet. What makes them different, IMO, is that their superior genetics enables them to get to this status without over-thinking nutrition, e.g. tons of gluten like sandwiches, other inflammatory foods like milk, and sometime rubbish protein supplements.

I will only mention one extreme example of a young guy who had excellent genetics that I used to work with. I used to train with him to give him an intro to weights. When he first came to the gym we used to laugh at him struggle under the bar but within weeks his strength levels soared and soon he was matching me on many lifts, which was very embarrassing. Now his diet was ridiculous, skipping breakfast, mid-morning bacon rolls, fish and chips for lunch, cream cakes mid-afternoon. For dinner, he had the Chinese takeaway on speed dial and literally ordered the same meal every night: which was greasy fried chicken rice and chips. Yet he was completely ripped, while I sat eating my cold chicken and pasta wondering where it all went wrong![/quote]

There are some younger people that get away with bad eating habits, and I can believe that. Though I doubt that will be the case when they hit their 30’s, 40’s and beyond, genetics can only take you so far for a certain amount of time. Bad dietary habits can be forever and wreck you in so many ways later.

My observation has been that genetics are one things, but drugs another thing entirely…and genetics + drugs allows for a lot of room in terms of loosening the dietary reigns. Eat like a pig and stay ripped seems to be encouraged by some of the more vocal members of this fraternity (and this adolescent mindset is indeed scary based on what I’ve seen and heard).

Since I come from a family of four siblings (three older brothers mind you, all into working out and bodybuilding), I have had initial exposure years ago (around 2000-2008) of many would be/wanna be bb’s out there, in the teenage to twenty-something age group, that tried emulating the pros both training and diet wise (stupid, I know). Most of these young guys were true bb junkies - they watched the training DVD’s, went to epos and scanned the internet for hours daily, looking for lots of related information as well as entertainment.

On that, I can only tell you what I’ve heard spoken and seen in the gyms, as well as the antics of friends of fellow family members:

Guys training heavy all the time and eating like out of control food nymphomaniacs; bulkers who were usually drug free but sported 40’+ plus waists and claimed that they were training for power & strength. (I guess zero dietary will power means that they had to check the power lifter box instead of the bodybuilding box.)

Natties who were either seasonal bulkers with extra fat & bloat or thinner ripped guys with abs and a little muscle, similar to a soccer player. (IMO, they looked the best usually.)

Juiced to the gill guys who ate like absolute garbage (fast food, sweets, etc.) and made up for it with pharmaceuticals. More junk food and calories? More and more drugs to make up for it. And many justified it by saying that’s what the pros do to look the way they look.

And other variations of the above.

I know ShadowPro is very informed, experienced and strongly opinionated on what real bb’s do by following a sound diet, taking the right beneficial supplements, monitoring their macros, etc., but in all due respect I have never seen this among the male bb folks that I’ve come across. Maybe these guys are wanna be ass clowns, but they all seemed to not think twice about eating what they liked and feeding like remorseless eating machines. I can remember a group trip to a buffet, with three of these guys (my bf’s friends), many years ago and they all consumed garbage with such gluttony that even the morbidly obese folks were appalled at the spectacle. And these guys all looked huge and ripped; you never would have guessed that they ever ate that way if hadn’t seen it with your own eyes. And by their own accounts and admission they said that eat like that all the time.

That is why I am a little skeptical whenever I hear the words blessed genetics; I think that 99.99% of the time it’s more like a blessed monster drug stack. I mentioned Kali Muscle before in humor, but in actuality, if you’ve seen any of his YouTube clips on cooking & diet for getting huge, look at the way he eats and what he promotes. It’s similar to what I’ve seen many young people follow in their own life, who are determined to get as close to that look as possible, minus the cooking of such junk food at home.

I don’t know about these guys and their respective mental state, but that sounds to me like a long term recipe for disaster, particularly with regard to their health, though that may be way back on the list of priorities for some of these guys and their present day concerns.


#13

[quote]TheresaACP wrote:

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
I’ve limited experience and certainly none around pros. But I have socialised with lower level competing bodybuilders and most eat a solid/reasonable enough diet. What makes them different, IMO, is that their superior genetics enables them to get to this status without over-thinking nutrition, e.g. tons of gluten like sandwiches, other inflammatory foods like milk, and sometime rubbish protein supplements.

I will only mention one extreme example of a young guy who had excellent genetics that I used to work with. I used to train with him to give him an intro to weights. When he first came to the gym we used to laugh at him struggle under the bar but within weeks his strength levels soared and soon he was matching me on many lifts, which was very embarrassing. Now his diet was ridiculous, skipping breakfast, mid-morning bacon rolls, fish and chips for lunch, cream cakes mid-afternoon. For dinner, he had the Chinese takeaway on speed dial and literally ordered the same meal every night: which was greasy fried chicken rice and chips. Yet he was completely ripped, while I sat eating my cold chicken and pasta wondering where it all went wrong![/quote]

I know ShadowPro is very informed, experienced and strongly opinionated on what real bb’s do by following a sound diet, taking the right beneficial supplements, monitoring their macros, etc., but in all due respect I have never seen this among the male bb folks that I’ve come across.
[/quote]

Well, he is talking about guys who do this for a living and have pro cards, not your average 24 Hour Fitness “bodybuilder”. Not to mention, he actually is a pro.


#14

[quote]TheresaACP wrote:
That is why I am a little skeptical whenever I hear the words blessed genetics; I think that 99.99% of the time it’s more like a blessed monster drug stack. [/quote]

Yes, we get it. And it kinda seems like you started this thread simply to make this point.

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]TheresaACP wrote:
I know ShadowPro is very informed, experienced and strongly opinionated on what real bb’s do by following a sound diet, taking the right beneficial supplements, monitoring their macros, etc., but in all due respect I have never seen this among the male bb folks that I’ve come across.
[/quote]

Well, he is talking about guys who do this for a living and have pro cards, not your average 24 Hour Fitness “bodybuilder”. Not to mention, he actually is a pro.
[/quote]

Seriously.

And honestly, who even really cares what the majority of dirty-bulking, self-labeled BBs are doing? It’s just one particular route to take, and just like every other one, it comes with consequences.


#15

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]TheresaACP wrote:
That is why I am a little skeptical whenever I hear the words blessed genetics; I think that 99.99% of the time it’s more like a blessed monster drug stack. [/quote]

Yes, we get it. And it kinda seems like you started this thread simply to make this point.

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]TheresaACP wrote:
I know ShadowPro is very informed, experienced and strongly opinionated on what real bb’s do by following a sound diet, taking the right beneficial supplements, monitoring their macros, etc., but in all due respect I have never seen this among the male bb folks that I’ve come across.
[/quote]

Well, he is talking about guys who do this for a living and have pro cards, not your average 24 Hour Fitness “bodybuilder”. Not to mention, he actually is a pro.
[/quote]

Seriously.

And honestly, who even really cares what the majority of dirty-bulking, self-labeled BBs are doing? It’s just one particular route to take, and just like every other one, it comes with consequences.

[/quote]

I started this thread and mentioned point because after over a decade of personal exposure that’s very close to home, seeing is believing, and it needed to be said (hey, I have first hand experience with this mentality).

And it’s annoying and quite frankly when I hear enhanced physique developers (pro or not) talk about training and diet and not mention drugs as part of the equation, especially to uniformed and highly impressionable young people. And I’m not just playing the ‘what message are we sending the kids?’ card here, that’s just how it goes, and far too many shady people have taken advantage of such newbies, of varying age groups, since day one. If that makes me sound self-righteous, then so be it.

That’s why I respect men like Rich Piana, I could care less what he uses. He paints it for what it is.

Truthfully I don’t, because we are talking about responsible (or what should be responsible) adults here, but let’s not forget that many got that way initially taking the bait from questionable sources.

FYI: Just this weekend, I flipped through a bb magazine from 2005 (from the boyfriend’s old stash because I felt nostalgic) and inside was King Kamali’s bulking diet, and what he says he ate to get the way it does, and there is no doubt why it was written that way and to whom it was presented for (young teenagers who don’t know any better and are starting bb themselves). Just a few issues late, in MD magazine from a couple years prior, it outlined an even more gluttonous dietary strategy. Sound seedy to you?

And while I’m on the subject, what about what guys like CT Fletcher and Kali Muscle are posting on their social media. Shouldn’t they be called out and shouldn’t people who don’t know any better be warned otherwise?

Let’s not forget, many new young people, that are introduce to bodybuilding for the first time, get their initial source of information nowadays from YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, and other forms of social media. That’s kind of scary when you think about it isn’t it?

Not everyone finds T-Nation first.


#16

[quote]TheresaACP wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]TheresaACP wrote:
That is why I am a little skeptical whenever I hear the words blessed genetics; I think that 99.99% of the time it’s more like a blessed monster drug stack. [/quote]

Yes, we get it. And it kinda seems like you started this thread simply to make this point.

I started this thread and mentioned point because after over a decade of personal exposure that’s very close to home, seeing is believing, and it needed to be said (hey, I have first hand experience with this mentality).

And it’s annoying and quite frankly when I hear enhanced physique developers (pro or not) talk about training and diet and not mention drugs as part of the equation, especially to uniformed and highly impressionable young people. And I’m not just playing the ‘what message are we sending the kids?’ card here, that’s just how it goes, and far too many shady people have taken advantage of such newbies, of varying age groups, since day one. If that makes me sound self-righteous, then so be it.

That’s why I respect men like Rich Piana, I could care less what he uses. He paints it for what it is.

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]TheresaACP wrote:
I know ShadowPro is very informed, experienced and strongly opinionated on what real bb’s do by following a sound diet, taking the right beneficial supplements, monitoring their macros, etc., but in all due respect I have never seen this among the male bb folks that I’ve come across.
[/quote]

Well, he is talking about guys who do this for a living and have pro cards, not your average 24 Hour Fitness “bodybuilder”. Not to mention, he actually is a pro.
[/quote]

Seriously.

And honestly, who even really cares what the majority of dirty-bulking, self-labeled BBs are doing? It’s just one particular route to take, and just like every other one, it comes with consequences.

[/quote]

Truthfully I don’t, because we are talking about responsible (or what should be responsible) adults here, but let’s not forget that many got that way initially taking the bait from questionable sources.

FYI: Just this weekend, I flipped through a bb magazine from 2005 (from the boyfriend’s old stash because I felt nostalgic) and inside was King Kamali’s bulking diet, and what he says he ate to get the way it does, and there is no doubt why it was written that way and to whom it was presented for (young teenagers who don’t know any better and are starting bb themselves). Just a few issues late, in MD magazine from a couple years prior, it outlined an even more gluttonous dietary strategy. Sound seedy to you?

And while I’m on the subject, what about what guys like CT Fletcher and Kali Muscle are posting on their social media. Shouldn’t they be called out and shouldn’t people who don’t know any better be warned otherwise?

Let’s not forget, many new young people, that are introduce to bodybuilding for the first time, get their initial source of information nowadays from YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, and other forms of social media. That’s kind of scary when you think about it isn’t it?

Not everyone finds T-Nation first.

[/quote]

What is the point of this thread? It just seems like a rant against anything other than recommending clean eating and railing against those with good genetics and labeling their success only because of drugs.

Oh, and I have nothing for or against CT Fletcher, but wasn’t he the one that said he learned his “diet” from bro science and after his health problems realized that wasn’t the way to go and now his diet consists mainly of spinach, fish, and sweet potatoes?

For kicks I looked up CT’s recent nutritional recommendations and he advocates egg whites, veggies, turkey, chicken breasts, salad, tuna, white rice, etc.

Regardless, I can’t see how these guys are responsible for anything anyone does. No one is forced to do what they say. Part of being educated in the realm of fitness/lifting/powerlifting/BB/whatever is doing stupid shit and learning from it. I’m willing to bet almost every single successful lifter on this forum at one point did something they regret.


#17

What is the point of this thread? It just seems like a rant against anything other than recommending clean eating and railing against those with good genetics and labeling their success only because of drugs.

Oh, and I have nothing for or against CT Fletcher, but wasn’t he the one that said he learned his “diet” from bro science and after his health problems realized that wasn’t the way to go and now his diet consists mainly of spinach, fish, and sweet potatoes?

For kicks I looked up CT’s recent nutritional recommendations and he advocates egg whites, veggies, turkey, chicken breasts, salad, tuna, white rice, etc.

Regardless, I can’t see how these guys are responsible for anything anyone does. No one is forced to do what they say. Part of being educated in the realm of fitness/lifting/powerlifting/BB/whatever is doing stupid shit and learning from it. I’m willing to bet almost every single successful lifter on this forum at one point did something they regret.[/quote]

Ah, you mean the same CT Fletcher that stated unequivocally that there is no such thing as over training, only under eating and under resting? The same one that put together a BS interview with doctors and follow-up drug (steroid) test, on YouTube, to prove that he is 100% drug free? And his health problems with his kidneys and heart, what pray tell do you think could have attributed to that at such a young age?

And then he goes online and gives advice to young people, while playing the natty card, and swearing he’s all natural. Yeah OK boss.

As for what’s the point (again), well maybe I’m just venting here, but when family and friends are inflicted by this mania and it hits close to home, it’s hard not to attack it and look at it with just a little contempt.

Or to put in a kinder fashion: For whose who made the mistake from learning through said bro science, wasted years bulking only to get fat, negatively impacted their health, build bad eating habits that they had to break, etc., don’t you think that they would have been better served given the good information in the first place? You know, that crazy eat clean while training hard stuff.

Seems like the logical advice to me.


#18

At this point you’ve just ranted and raved in a thread where you’ve discounted what Shadow Pro says (because, you > an actual pro bodybuilder) and insulted anyone who trains for power and strength who isn’t lean (“I guess zero dietary will power means that they had to check the power lifter box instead of the bodybuilding box”). You’ve done nothing in this thread but basically espouse “clean eating is the only way and there is no reason anyone should do anything else”.

So to sum things up, you’ve mandated everyone must cleanly eat and insulted those with far more knowledge, experience, and accomplishments than you. Bravo.

As for CT, WHO GIVES A FUCK. Seriously. Also, you misquoted him on dieting and then misdirected the conversation into “he said he was drug free that’s a lie blah blah blah”. Again, IT DOESN’T MATTER.


#19

Well in case you forgot what the title of this thread was, it was entitled “Bodybuilding & Junkfood”, not powerlifting and junkfood. Since I don’t participate or follow PF or OL, I don’t pay much attention to those sports. They can eat as necessary, they are not doing it to (1) step on stage and be judged for how their body looks, (2) or doing it for looking better in and out of clothes, or (3) for reasons pertaining to being healthy as well as looking good. Yes, I said being healthy because since most people will never compete on stage (or care to do so), and since bodybuilding isn’t truly a sport (at least not in the classical sense of the word), health should be a huge component of it. If not, what good is it?

Crazy I know, but just my opinion which I am entitled to.

And I didn’t insult powerlifters. In case I wasn’t clear enough, I’m talking about the specific asses that I see in the gym who call themselves that because they have no dietary willpower, so they pass it off as power lifting. It’s obviously not, and it’s actually an insult to true powerlifters. It’s training to use getting stronger as an excuse, simply because they are too weak willed to cut the excess crap from their diet and likewise get rid of the junk food. I’m not one to define others goals or objectives for happiness, but I can see through these fools like saran wrap, and if you can’t, you need to look harder.

And eating clean + bodybuilding as being the only and best way? That is what Christian Thibaudeau on this very site wrote an entire article about and recommended (check out “The Truth about Bulking” for reference purposes). I just happen to agree with that logic as that’s what I see actually working for instead of against for naturals. Why don’t you take it up with him?

Also, I’m not side stepping ShadowPro and his experience/expertise, it would be foolish of me to do so. I made it likewise very clear I respect his opinion and credentials. I only commented that’s not what I see around me at the gym, and have even heard about how many pros eat who are full time competitors. And even you can’t argue with that, have you ever read or seen of Lee Priest’s stuff about diet? There were even multiple Dead Pool articles describing how irresponsibly many of these pro guys eat and diet year round; I am simply quoting a different observation about how some of these guys eat that is different than what he does. Check it out before you put words in my mouth.

Lastly, as far the CT Fletchers and Kali Muscles of the world go, I agree: WHO CARES? But I only brought them up as an example of how bad some of the training and diet advice is out there for youngsters looking to get into bodybuilding for self improvement, and it was a rightful criticism. I don’t see what you are arguing about.


#20

[quote]TheresaACP wrote:
As for what’s the point (again), well maybe I’m just venting here, but when family and friends are inflicted by this mania and it hits close to home, it’s hard not to attack it and look at it with just a little contempt.

Or to put in a kinder fashion: For whose who made the mistake from learning through said bro science, wasted years bulking only to get fat, negatively impacted their health, build bad eating habits that they had to break, etc., don’t you think that they would have been better served given the good information in the first place? You know, that crazy eat clean while training hard stuff.

Seems like the logical advice to me.[/quote]

No doubt.

People – and youngsters who are both impressionable and impatient in general – will always be tempted by the appeal of the quickest route. Part of human nature.

And people in the US – where capitalism won – will typically exploit these tendencies in order to make a buck.

Go figure.