I think its more about structure and bodyfat than training style:
Coleman
Plers
cutler
I am unsure what you are intending to do here.
I wanted to link pictures to this article discussion: Bodybuilders Versus Power Athletes - Powerlifting & Strength Sports - Forums - T Nation
But pics have too big IP addresses to fit on a discussion post.
Ok, you posted pictures of some sort and posted a link right back to this thread.
Two thumbs up and a job well done! Keep it coming!
How about you look at pictures of PLers in other classes, besides SHW? Even the 262/ 275 guys are usually pretty lean. And if you are 242 and under and want to be competitive, you better be lean. Dumb thread is dumb.
[quote]deepsquats220 wrote:
How about you look at pictures of PLers in other classes, besides SHW? Even the 262/ 275 guys are usually pretty lean. And if you are 242 and under and want to be competitive, you better be lean. Dumb thread is dumb. [/quote]
Agreed, I think most elite lifters focusing on gaining as much lean body mass as possible within the limitations of a weight class system are going to be pretty lean. Leaner than many bodybuilders in the offseason… At least this appears to be the case in weightlifting, in which it might take an elite lifter a year or more to adjust to a higher weight class. But the SHW divisions in both sports are pretty much a free-for-all.
I’m responding to this thread:
While bodybuilding type training will maximize hypertrophy, a lot of the “muscularity” seen in bodybuilders is the result of being lean, and having a structure that produces a visual result-joint size, natural muscle shape, and also their genetics to acquire muscle.
Bodybulders often can look bigger when they are smaller as well. I just tried to find bodybuilders out of contest shape to show that they don’t necessarily have more hypertrophy than powerlifters.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Bodybulders often can look bigger when they are smaller as well. I just tried to find bodybuilders out of contest shape to show that they don’t necessarily have more hypertrophy than powerlifters.
[/quote]
While a proper discussion would require a lot more clarification as to what we are really talking about, I think you are dead wrong about this at least.
The assisted BBing pros are significantly bigger than their assisted PLing counterparts. I think Matt Kroc is a great example. He was a fairly muscular (and assisted) PLer before he decided to transition to BBing. And guess what happened? He got raped on the NPC (not the pros mind you!) stage in terms of sheer size despite training like a BBer as a prep for some time.
ps: The strongman pic is obviously photoshopped.
Stan Efferding? He has relatively undeveloped quads though. I’m quite sure its more related to genetics than actual training methods.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Bodybulders often can look bigger when they are smaller as well. I just tried to find bodybuilders out of contest shape to show that they don’t necessarily have more hypertrophy than powerlifters.
[/quote]
While a proper discussion would require a lot more clarification as to what we are really talking about, I think you are dead wrong about this at least.
The assisted BBing pros are significantly bigger than their assisted PLing counterparts. I think Matt Kroc is a great example. He was a fairly muscular (and assisted) PLer before he decided to transition to BBing. And guess what happened? He got raped on the NPC (not the pros mind you!) stage in terms of sheer size despite training like a BBer as a prep for some time.
ps: The strongman pic is obviously photoshopped.[/quote]
The top bodybuilders ARE bigger and look bigger, but I think it is a combination of genetics, build/structure/“illusion” in part due to leanness and shape.
Yes pump, volume and vascularity add the last 15%, but I just think that you can build the vast majority of lasting muscle with the right kind of strength training.
And I mean that I have seen bodybuilders who look bigger when they lose the last 3% BF, or even going from 12 to 8%. Does Lee Priest in off season condition look funadmentally “more jacked” than Wendler or Mariusz Pudzianowski? And is the difference in bodybuilders a fundamental difference in training, or the last bits of pumptitude, glycogen supercompensation etc.
I remember seeing bodybuilders who lost a ton of muscle when they stopped training.
I know its not “modern” bodybuilding, but ever see Boyer Coe coming back?
What about this hypothesis: most people would gain more lasting muscle over the next 5 years if they trained like strength athletes than if they trained like bodybuilders?
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
What about this hypothesis: most people would gain more lasting muscle over the next 5 years if they trained like strength athletes than if they trained like bodybuilders?[/quote]
I think for natural guys that is true, guys on drugs seems to do much better on typical bodybuilding principles.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
And I mean that I have seen bodybuilders who look bigger when they lose the last 3% BF, or even going from 12 to 8%. Does Lee Priest in off season condition look funadmentally “more jacked” than Wendler or Mariusz Pudzianowski?
[/quote]
If you got either of those guys in contest condition and stood them next to Lee on a stage, height differences aside, yes, Lee would look bigger and better. If we’re comparing by bodybuilding standards then we have to compare using bodybuilding conditions.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I remember seeing bodybuilders who lost a ton of muscle when they stopped training. [/quote]
I don’t even know what this has to do with anything. Everybody loses muscle when they stop training.
I see where you’re going with this, but comparing pics of off-season pro bodybuilders with fat elite powerlifters tells us nothing useful about how non-assisted, amateur bodybuilders should train.