T Nation

Bodybuilders Are Weak

[quote]NeoSpartan wrote:
I don’t know where this idea came from BB are really strong, but when compared with Strongman competitors and Olympic Lifters then BBs don’t quite measure up.

I think Waterbury discussed this in one of his articles, or maybe the Critic did I can’t remember… But I recalled that a lot had to do with BB training for looks by only using split training (some adding juice), without doing any compound and/or high-intensity/cardio training. Therefore leaving a really strong looking body, but with a conditioning and lifting ability not to par with what the body looks.

[/quote]

What bodybuilders do you know of who don’t squat? What do you think “split training” means?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
TShaw wrote:
I never heard the term “weak” used until this website.

Me either and I ahve been lifting for a while now. I NEVER heard of this growing up in any gym. It wasn’t until it started getti8ng repeated by small guys on internet forums that it became some “law” that kept getting repeated. Meanwhile, I still don’t see all of those super strong skinny guys in the gym. They must be hiding.[/quote]

I did hear it in life many times. I trained in karate, tkd, and mhuy thai for years. At 14 I started working out to get some more power and some more explosion in my fighting. My instructors and higher ranking students said this was stupid.

Being muscle bound would slow you down, take away your ability to perform certain techniques and women wouldn’t like it. They were wrong then, and are still wrong. They would always say, you don’t wanna look like a bodybuilder or something do you? I didn’t listen however, I kept working out.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:

Also, everyone under 200 pounds refers to everyone over 200 pounds as fat. Why? [/quote]

I’m not fat!

Am I?

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Difficult to say, but I do know of people who say it this way: if bodybuilders were as strong/athletic as they claim to be, why aren’t they playing the sports to prove it? And, therefore, since they aren’t, they clearly are not that strong, etc.

Don’t know if I buy into that myself completely, but I think a number of people think that if you are truly that strong, you would be doing something other than standing around in a purple Speedo.

That’s a guess - I have no real idea.[/quote]

The people that make this original quote have obviously never seen Ron Coleman train. That stereotype is for idiots. As if their muscles were inflated with air.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
PGA wrote:
“Body builders may be big but they’re weak as hell.” Where did this stereotype come from?

Read Nietzsche for the answer. It’s something small and weak people say to make themselves feel superior to bodybuilders. Envy and resentment will lead people to do this.

When a smoking hot chick walks by a group of girls, you can bet one of them will say, “bitch,” “slut,” etc. Why?
Because the other girls feel threatened.

When a big boy walks by, all the small and weak guys need to insult that person to make themselves feel better. Hence, they say bodybuilders are weak.

Now that the UFC is on TV just about every day, fewer guys say bb’ers are weak. Now they say, “I could totally tap him out!”

Also, everyone under 200 pounds refers to everyone over 200 pounds as fat. Why? Same emotions - envy and resentment - are at play.[/quote]

CaliforniaLaw…You are so right! Good words.

[quote]keaster wrote:
I hear a lot of this thrown around during martial arts training. They are always saying shit like; bodybuilders are weak and nonfunctional, a smaller person will take them out easy, and that their pressure points (I assume that means nerves and shit) are closer to the skin.

[/quote]

i sincerely hope you don’t agree with all that bullshit you’re hearing, because it can get you in a lot of trouble. if an instructor is telling you that stuff, you should find one more qualified. one should never underestimate a potential opponent, reagrdless of their appearance or actions, because we only see 1% of what a person is capable of at any given time.

i’m not formally instructed, but i learned a lot from my uncle, who was. i learned from him that one should always expect an amplitude of what one cannot see, and always be prepared to counter it.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
NeoSpartan wrote:
I don’t know where this idea came from BB are really strong, but when compared with Strongman competitors and Olympic Lifters then BBs don’t quite measure up.

I think Waterbury discussed this in one of his articles, or maybe the Critic did I can’t remember… But I recalled that a lot had to do with BB training for looks by only using split training (some adding juice), without doing any compound and/or high-intensity/cardio training. Therefore leaving a really strong looking body, but with a conditioning and lifting ability not to par with what the body looks.

What bodybuilders do you know of who don’t squat? What do you think “split training” means?[/quote]

Curling with the right hand one day and the left hand the next?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Curling with the right hand one day and the left hand the next?[/quote]

No, I think this is split training.

[quote]Dirty Tiger wrote:
http://www.btinternet.com/~philip.j.wright/GlennRossBefore.htm

Glenn Ross before bulking.[/quote]

HOLY SHIT!!!

Half the people here have no clue what he looks like now.

Monopoly

many strongmen where once bodybuilders,
Svend Karlsen, Mark Felix, etc

[quote]Professor X wrote:
NeoSpartan wrote:
I don’t know where this idea came from BB are really strong, but when compared with Strongman competitors and Olympic Lifters then BBs don’t quite measure up.

I think Waterbury discussed this in one of his articles, or maybe the Critic did I can’t remember… But I recalled that a lot had to do with BB training for looks by only using split training (some adding juice), without doing any compound and/or high-intensity/cardio training. Therefore leaving a really strong looking body, but with a conditioning and lifting ability not to par with what the body looks.

What bodybuilders do you know of who don’t squat? What do you think “split training” means?[/quote]

OK, I guess I need to elaborate a bit more:

1-Bodybuilders are NOT weak.
2-Bodybuilders train to build Mass and Definition. Thats their Goal, thats what their sport (?) measures.
3-Now, when a BodyBuilder tries to compete on Olympic Lifts he/she will be crushed in his/her weight category because… a BB doesn’t train to LIFT HEAVY STUFF.
4-The same thing will happen to a BB who tries to compete in Strongman competitions.
5- Thats why I say that the BB doesn’t measure up with the O-Lifter and/or Strongman competitor.
6- Also a Bodybuilder does little or no cardio or high intensity to increase stamina. Why? Thats not what his sport calls for. (I should say, picking up a heavy weight and putting it over your head, again, and again, will work ur cardio too)

Now IF a BB wants to compete in O-lifting or strongman, then he/she will need to change his/her training significantly.

now to answer Professor X questions:
-They all do actually, but of the few BB I personally know non do Overhead Squats. U may know some BB who do…
-Yep… Is when u jump up in the air and land on ur butt with one leg in front and the other one in the back. Like the Dallas Cheerleaders
…sike! bad joke :frowning:

[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:
Dirty Tiger wrote:
http://www.btinternet.com/~philip.j.wright/GlennRossBefore.htm

Glenn Ross before bulking.

HOLY SHIT!!!

Half the people here have no clue what he looks like now.

Monopoly[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. I’ve never seen the daddy look like that.

Oh as for the bodybuilder/powerlifter myth… I present these photos.

http://myspace-280.vo.llnwd.net/00579/08/27/579777280_l.jpg
http://myspace-941.vo.llnwd.net/01027/14/90/1027680941_l.jpg

Now the big question… Bodybuilder or Powerlifter. And please please PLEASE let someone say “yeah but what about the wheels”.

[quote]NeoSpartan wrote:

OK, I guess I need to elaborate a bit more:

1-Bodybuilders are NOT weak.
2-Bodybuilders train to build Mass and Definition. Thats their Goal, thats what their sport (?) measures.
3-Now, when a BodyBuilder tries to compete on Olympic Lifts he/she will be crushed in his/her weight category because… a BB doesn’t train to LIFT HEAVY STUFF.
4-The same thing will happen to a BB who tries to compete in Strongman competitions.
5- Thats why I say that the BB doesn’t measure up with the O-Lifter and/or Strongman competitor.
6- Also a Bodybuilder does little or no cardio or high intensity to increase stamina. Why? Thats not what his sport calls for. (I should say, picking up a heavy weight and putting it over your head, again, and again, will work ur cardio too)

Now IF a BB wants to compete in O-lifting or strongman, then he/she will need to change his/her training significantly.

bad joke :frowning:
[/quote]

Yes i do think most of what you stated was a bad joke…but i do agree with your first point.:frowning:

“Weak” relative to whom?

In comparison to the whole of humanity, dominated by the lazy and out-of-shape, they are obviously on the stronger end of the spectrum. And so in comparison to many other athletes. But in comparison to other weightlifters they are clearly not strong.

[quote]Unisonus wrote:
But in comparison to other weightlifters they are clearly not strong.[/quote]

You really believe that?

[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:
Dirty Tiger wrote:
http://www.btinternet.com/~philip.j.wright/GlennRossBefore.htm

Glenn Ross before bulking.

HOLY SHIT!!!

Half the people here have no clue what he looks like now.

Monopoly[/quote]

I don’t know who he is. Put up a current pic if you have one.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Monopoly19 wrote:
Dirty Tiger wrote:
http://www.btinternet.com/~philip.j.wright/GlennRossBefore.htm

Glenn Ross before bulking.

HOLY SHIT!!!

Half the people here have no clue what he looks like now.

Monopoly

I don’t know who he is. Put up a current pic if you have one.[/quote]

http://www.btinternet.com/~philip.j.wright/glenrosspage_files/image021.jpg

Not even joking.

Some more pictures here… http://www.btinternet.com/~philip.j.wright/glenrosspage.htm

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Monopoly19 wrote:
Dirty Tiger wrote:
http://www.btinternet.com/~philip.j.wright/GlennRossBefore.htm

Glenn Ross before bulking.

HOLY SHIT!!!

Half the people here have no clue what he looks like now.

Monopoly

I don’t know who he is. Put up a current pic if you have one.

http://www.btinternet.com/~philip.j.wright/glenrosspage_files/image021.jpg

Not even joking.

Some more pictures here… http://www.btinternet.com/~philip.j.wright/glenrosspage.htm

[/quote]

Thanks.

In regards to STRENGTH…Do you people not understand the basic principlesof 1)Cross sectional muscle area and 2) Neural adaptations ???
(if you dont…look it up…read a book)

A BB (say 270lbs)may look like he can bench 500 and realistically bench 400 or look like he can squat 800 and realistically squat 500…
while a powerlifter(say 165lbs) may look like he can bench 1 wheel a side but realistically hit 4 wheels…and maybe even squat 500lbs…

now of course most 165lb men are not strong( if you are 165lbs …i am sorry, someone has to break this reality to you) and not all bodybuilders are strong. Some bodybuilding are F*&$in strong some arent…it all depends on how you train…form follows function.

Bodybuilders train to get big…not to get strong…powerlifters train to get strong not to get big…both result in size and strength gains but to different degrees…


Come on how should a bodybuilder be able to be strong at something a strongman has used years practicing and getting neural adaptations at. It doesn’t mean that either of them are weak.

There are plenty of strongmen that look like bodybuilders but have a much higher fat percent for lifting leverage. People just are so used to seeing fat people that they can’t see the difference between big and strong and big and sedentary. And btw they usually have very big amounts of muscle underneath.

Look at the #1 strongman in the world and tell me he doesn’t look like a bodybuilder? Muscle growth and neural adaptation are two completely different things.

I am not strong compared to a powerlifter but I train for reps, pump and progressive poundages and eat and do everything possible to grow. Powerlifters are only looking to increase their 1rm not shape their triceps or get bigger calves.

Sometimes people on this forum think there are no grey zones.