T Nation

Bodybuilders Are Relatively Weak!

Honestly they really are. And so are heavy-weight weightlifters and powerlifters and so are gorillas. Well at least according to the people on this site. The thing that people don’t take into account is that someone who is TALL will always be relatively weaker than someone who is short. It is actually height more than anything else that determines your “relative” strength.

Think of it this way… Lightweight weightlifters can lift 3x their own bodyweight over their head. Super heavyweights less than 2x. So if you want great relative strength, make sure you are short, if not, well then you really have to add muscle, because there aren’t any 6 foot 145 pounds strongmen I know of.

Muscle after all will make you stronger. A guy that is 6 foot tall and weighs 140 pounds is not as strong as a guy that is also 6 foot tall and weighs 200 pounds (assuming that it is muscle). There simply is nobody on this earth who is over 6 feet tall that can be considered strong at 145 pounds, no such thing. And I think your “relative” strength will also increase as your bodyweight increases.

Sure enough it will always be lower than that of an equally well trained but shorter individual, but it will be better than what you started with. Case in point, myself. I more than doubled my lifts the first year of training, and I certainly didn’t double my bodyweight.

(On a different note. I even think that the relative strength of short bodybuilders like Lee Priest and Franco Columbu is higher than those of heavyweight power- and weightlifters.)

Also, if you look at men like Rezazadeh you will soon find that he probably has about the same amount of muscle mass as someone like Ronnie Coleman. Interestingly enough I think that if you could teach today’s elite bodybuilders perfect weightlifting technique and gave them a few months(or years) to prepare they would do extremely well in a meet. Probably world class too. If they have the required coordination.

We’ve heard the stories of bodybuilders using relatively light weights such as Paul Dillet and Vince Taylor. However, I am willing to bet that if people would use their techinique, range of motion, tempo and their diet at the time of taping the weights would be suprisingly heavy.

The biggest men are the strongest. And the shortest are the relative strongest. It has nothing to do with bodyweight but with height. If your tall you need the muscle and everything will improve. If you’re short you need less of it because you have better leverages, and of course, you don’t have to lift that much.

I think the entire notion of “relative” strength is bullshit. It’s just something that weighlifting organizations cae up with to compare lifters from different weight classes.

Look at it this way. Relatively an ant is about 100 times as strong as a gorilla. But if you would enlarge the ant to the size of the gorilla the pull of gravity would be too great for its body to bear. Goes to demonstrate how silly “relative” strength is. If the people here would rather be an ant than a gorilla I think it’s safe to assume you went to the wrong site. Do you really wanna be an ant?

[quote]PeteK wrote:
There simply is nobody on this earth who is over 6 feet tall that can be considered strong at 145 pounds, no such thing.
[/quote]

I’m going to go with Corey Hill from the Ultimate Fighter, this past season. I have no idea what his lifting numbers are but the guy was a beast in the ring for only having a few fights.

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
PeteK wrote:
There simply is nobody on this earth who is over 6 feet tall that can be considered strong at 145 pounds, no such thing.

I’m going to go with Corey Hill from the Ultimate Fighter, this past season. I have no idea what his lifting numbers are but the guy was a beast in the ring for only having a few fights.[/quote]

Oh yes of course, the ever popular UFC, WWE for grown ups. I don’t care how many people he can “tap out”. Skinny little fighters are not as strong as the big ones. Being as skinny as him won’t make you good as him, really. A good big man will always win from a good small man.

So maybe this Corey guy can use some more muscle too. (And really I don’t care if he can make me tap out. And yes I can say this to his face too. And no, I don’t dare to fght him)

I have some relatives that are weak. Wait, what was the question?

[quote]PeteK wrote:
I think the entire notion of “relative” strength is bullshit.[/quote]
This is where you TOTALLY lost me…

Of course bigger = less relative strength, but that doesn’t mean that if you are over 6 foot and 250+, that you shouldn’t be able to do a chin-up…

Relative strength is not a crock to any athlete that has to start, stop and jump.

Hmmm so are you trying to be the new Prof.X? Are you going to tell me to go eat a burger?

Also, what about the Olympic lifters? I bet there is a skinny, tall Chinese/Russian girl out there that can lift more than you.

Are you high?

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
I’m going to go with Corey Hill from the Ultimate Fighter, this past season. I have no idea what his lifting numbers are but the guy was a beast in the ring for only having a few fights.[/quote]

Hill walks around at about 170-175 and cuts weight to 155.
He is in no way a “beast” His fights on TUF were horrible, especially the fight with EMERSON was the worst I’ve seen. Striking sucked, and his ground game is horrible.

:slight_smile:

I’m guessing what you are talking about is why the Wilks Co-efficients were developed for powerlifting.

www.powerlifting-ipf.com/wilks.htm

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
Hmmm so are you trying to be the new Prof.X? Are you going to tell me to go eat a burger?

Also, what about the Olympic lifters? I bet there is a skinny, tall Chinese/Russian girl out there that can lift more than you.
[/quote]

Not tall! And if they are I will assure you they will have to put on a lot of mass to compete. Again, have you ever seen a tall skinny lifter at the Olypics NO. There is no such animal. The taller weightlifters are all heavy. Never seen a 6 footer in the ligher weightclasses.

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
PeteK wrote:
There simply is nobody on this earth who is over 6 feet tall that can be considered strong at 145 pounds, no such thing.

I’m going to go with Corey Hill from the Ultimate Fighter, this past season. I have no idea what his lifting numbers are but the guy was a beast in the ring for only having a few fights.[/quote]

Don’t forget Bruce Lee!

This must be a new record, first reply starts the turn into a fighting thread.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
PeteK wrote:
There simply is nobody on this earth who is over 6 feet tall that can be considered strong at 145 pounds, no such thing.

I’m going to go with Corey Hill from the Ultimate Fighter, this past season. I have no idea what his lifting numbers are but the guy was a beast in the ring for only having a few fights.

Don’t forget Bruce Lee!

This must be a new record, first reply starts the turn into a fighting thread.[/quote]

Yes the immortal, or is it very mortal??, Bruce Lee. An actor who played someone who is really strong, yet never participated in international competition.

Haha sorry about that Zap

So back to lifting:

Unless I am mistaken the former world record holder in the lightweight olympic class Plamen Jeliazkov was fairly tall correct?

Even if he wasn’t there are various others who were record holders that were 5’8’’ and 5’9’’ and while thats not 6’ they were lightweights so they were skinny.

PeteK, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[quote]Boris B wrote:
PeteK wrote:
I think the entire notion of “relative” strength is bullshit.
This is where you TOTALLY lost me…

Of course bigger = less relative strength, but that doesn’t mean that if you are over 6 foot and 250+, that you shouldn’t be able to do a chin-up…

Relative strength is not a crock to any athlete that has to start, stop and jump.[/quote]

and this pertains to bodybuilders how?

In your sport, are you moving yourself or other things? In most sports you spend more time moving yourself, so relative strength is more important. This all sounds like a really long whine about being tall.

People with big heads are relativly stupid.

I am the very model of a modern Major General.

and you know what else, downhill skiers are relatively poor shots with rifles.

I mean biathlon skiers can shoot so we should rate all sports and interests that involve skis and snow the same.

and you know what else, YOU are a relatively weak at nascar driving even though you drive a car.

[quote]PeteK wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
PeteK wrote:
There simply is nobody on this earth who is over 6 feet tall that can be considered strong at 145 pounds, no such thing.

I’m going to go with Corey Hill from the Ultimate Fighter, this past season. I have no idea what his lifting numbers are but the guy was a beast in the ring for only having a few fights.

Don’t forget Bruce Lee!

This must be a new record, first reply starts the turn into a fighting thread.

Yes the immortal, or is it very mortal??, Bruce Lee. An actor who played someone who is really strong, yet never participated in international competition.

[/quote]

Watch the following video on Mr. Lee, and you will change your mind. I doubt even an Oly lifter larger than Lee (within reason of course) could knock someone that far with a punch just one inch away from the body.

http://www.kewego.com/video/iLyROoaftM0v.html

Strength is relative to what you train, not based on your height or weight. I know numerous guys that weigh 150lb and can easily outlift the 250lb beasts at the same height (which are lean and cut) at the gym. These 150lb guys do nothing but low rep sets with high poundage and are worried about max strength. They limit their diet as to not gain weight so they stay in the same weight class for competition, whereas the 250lb guys just want mass and typically care less about how much they can bench. You also have to consider mechanical advantages of lifts when comparing tall vs. short lifters.

Ever see a 7’ man do deadlifts? I’ll bet the shorter guy at the same weight will outlift him due to mechanical advantage (assuming they have both been training). You mention 6’ and weight of 145, which is close to a bag of bones. Do you still stand by your argument comparing someone 6’ 190 and someone 6’ 240? Muscle does not “always” mean strength unless you train for strength, although there are always exceptions.

Oh and the statement about Cory Hill. LOL, he is one skinny bastard but in an MMA fight he has a huge reach advantage and it’s flat out awkward once you get him to the ground and have to work around his long limbs. The stand-up game is difficult unless you keep it at very close quarters so his reach advantage is no longer an issue.