T Nation

Bodybuilders are Porkers

This post is a reaction to DPH’s post below, from the thread in which the guy is worried about deadlifting screwing up his back.

I certainly have been noticing a massive influx of articles by many of the regular writers espousing “rules” that almost appear to be laid out just to contradict classical bodybuilding protocols, which have worked for years. What works isn’t going to change, so why, recently, all of this backlash against all of it, from “bodypart splits suck the pus from a rat’s infected asshole” to “steady state cardio is absolutely, positively, in all cases, useless,” to, “don’t ever go over 10 percent body fat or your heart will spontaneously explode!?!?!” I know, I exaggerate, but not much. I guess it’s the disease of modern times, that what’s old, even if it is true, just don’t sell, so all those guys who built superhuman bodies using old fashioned big boy bulks, working individual body parts into the ground and going home, and doing hours of cardio in preparation for a show weren’t doing it right. Must have been the genetics. And the roids.

I’m getting excellent results off of my plain vanilla body part split program I make for myself, have gotten myself down to pretty low bf% using basic dieting and lots of cardio (and it wasn’t just the broccoli that got me to 6%), and am now gaining steadily at somewhere above 12% bf where I was completely unable to gain any weight for a year trying to stay at or under 10%.

I still love this website, but I gotta agree with DPH somewhat. What the hell is going on here lately? Seems like some of these guys should know better.

I feel like someone snuck into my head and wrote my thoughts out…without permission I might add.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I feel like someone snuck into my head and wrote my thoughts out…without permission I might add.[/quote]

Indeed. I’m all-for advancement in the thoughts and processes of training and nutrition, but sometimes I feel like people come up with stuff just for the sake of saying something different.

I mean, the science behind nutrition has improved dramatically since the 70’s and 80’s, and new discoveries continue to occur, so my ears are always perked up for that type of stuff.

However, with training, it seems that what has worked within the past 30 years still works today.

Now, if you exclusively use some revolutionary approach to training, and have the physique or validated numbers to show for it, I’m all ears.

Until then, get off your soapbox.

Yet most of the contradictory stuff comes from people with so called ‘expertise’ on the field.

It’s hard to know where to start with things if you are just starting out on the BB’ng scene.

As noted on numerous other threads, “fitness” authors gotta eat too. They need to come up with stuff to write about, or they are just stuck writing about the same old stuff which won’t sell much. Fortunately for them, there are plenty of guys who are always looking for the easy way to get built while trying to avoid the tried and true methods of the past…working hard, resting and feeding the machine.

There is some interesting work out there though, especially in regards to technique of lifts, and variety of training which I find helpful. So, I’m not saying all the articles are marketed crap, but too many are.

I’m no expert, but seems to me the only really new stuff seems to be coming out in supplementation and nutrition. But so little of that has hard science backing it up, they can claim pretty much anything they want, or at least tailor their studies to have the desired results.

Anyway, lift more, eat more, rest more, read less. Right?

Not really, if you are in the habit of right thinking.

Find people who have succeeded in accomplishing what you intend to and follow the path they beat to their destination.

If you wanted to get rich, whose advice would you take, Donald Trump’s, or some guy who get’s paid $60,000 a year writing for the Times? Funny thing is, most people spend their most of their time reading the financial advice of journalists, rather than guys who are genuinely rich.

Don’t major in minor shit.

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
Yet most of the contradictory stuff comes from people with so called ‘expertise’ on the field.

It’s hard to know where to start with things if you are just starting out on the BB’ng scene.[/quote]

I absolutely agree. As an example, just look at all those moronic masturbators that laugh at me when I tell them that the earth is flat and that it is the center of the universe. Where they get these newfangled ideas beats the shit outta me. Stick with the old! Down with the new! Kill the heretics!

Actually, this is nothing new to Testosterone. They have always presented new and contradicting info, ever since '98 when I first ran accross them. I do not thing think to point is to create new lifting dogmas just to debunk to old. I believe the point is to get people to think about things differently a try new things.

I really like the appraoch and have tried many new things and have enjoyed results from some and not from others, but it always keeps me fresh. I got great gains from splits, but then I get really impressive results from a HFT methodology.

After 12 weeks and 10 lbs. I am starting to split again, but differently from before still incorperating some HFT pricipals but concentrating more on body parts and systems. I have endless variety.

I think the bottom line is if something is working for you, keep doing it until it doesn’t, then change it. Testosterone, gives me lots of ideas.

Different authors have different ideas. Thib is a body part split single joint advocate, bodybuilding type. Poliquin, is insane and like to cause people pain; which I appreciate, TC, likes to keep it simple, Shugart will try anything. Davis is out of his mind (the bear), but brilliant in his own way, etc. So you really have the gammot.

Right now, what I believe you are seeing is a heavy concentration on ramping the product line up and getting to store to be a strong presence. This takes a lot of time and energy and articles may suffer, but they will come back.

I am not a T-Nation dick sucker, but I will defend them because I have gotten more cutting edge, actual, real helpful info from here, for free, then I ever have reading the old muscle rags. Sure they’ll have good piece now and then, but the ratio is higher here and it’s free and they have helped me tremendously.

There are things I don’t like for instance, I want the name to be testosterone.net again. I’d like to see not every single article up for discussion, but really that’s small potatos. This is still my main lifting info.

When I did juice, I did very little (2 small cycles lasting now more then 3 weeks using one 'riod at resonable doses, not a cocktail of a bunch of shit)and that was over 10 yrs ago. I get more “holy shit’s” in response to my physique now then I did 10 yrs ago and it’s thanks to the free info on this site. I woundn’t mind another small cycle though, but wifey would kill me.

Ok, I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. What would you rather have: one article every month saying espousing the tried and true ways of the classic bodybuilders, or several articles a week with contradictory opinions based on new science/studies/personal experience, which require you to be a critical reader and thinker?

I think the whole point of the articles here are to get you to think outside of your comfort zone. If you honestly don’t agree with the author’s opinions, then so be it. But at least you have been exposed to another opinion and are aware of what is being done in the industry, and where it may be headed in the future.

If Mike Boyle says don’t deadlift, but you deadlift heavy every week anyway, good for you. I know I do, and I do ATG back squats, too just like a lot of people here. But, what if you’re a 38 year old veteran with nagging injuries? Don’t you think an article like Mike’s would help?

Now take CT’s anti-bulking article. It seems to me that he was unfairly criticized by the “I bulked up to 15% BF and made huge gains” crowd. That’s great that they made gains, and were willing to carry around some fat in the process, but CT’s whole point was that for most of us, who will never be standing on a stage in our skivvies, there is no point in spending half of the year fatter than we want to be, so that we can be a little bigger down the road.

Was his article for everyone? NO! But it still should be read by everyone here, and considered.

I agree with you all that the basics will always be a sure bet: Lift hard, rest enough, and eat big. No author here has EVER said otherwise. But, they have offered interesting alternatives for those who have goals which differ from professional bodybuilders’. What about those of us can’t get to the gym 5 days a week to do a standard BB split? Well, a 3 day full-body routine is a perfect fit.

I think it is unfair to call into question the integrity of T-Nation based on a few articles which you don’t agree with. That’s the whole point of this site! Its a think-tank. Please tell me where you can get a group of free-thinking, intelligent, creative people to agree on ANYTHING, let alone something as complex as fitness and nutrition.

Now, the fact that we have a manorexic posting a picture every day is a problem (and saying they eat a TON, like, you know, 2500 calories), but please don’t confuse that unfortunate trend with a series of articles intended to offer some unpopular opinions. Yes, T-Nation has had some unfortunate developments of late, but the writing is certainly not one of them, in my opinion.

Thanks for listening. Peace.

Good stuff.

I enjoy reading all the T-Nation authors but I always keep in mind that they are using the article to differentiate and sell themselves.

As I keep this in mind it is much easier to handle all the varied information.

Boyle’s new article was down on barbell deadlifting. Rather than dismiss him out of hand I thought about why he takes that approach. It is easy to injure yourself deadlifting if you do not focus on the task. Many of his athletes likely do not focus on the task and the last thing he needs is someone missing game time from doing an exercise he told them to do.

What I took home is that if you are going to deadlift you have to take care. If you do not want to deadlift he gave alternatives.

This place is full of great information unfortunately too many people do not know how to handle it.

[quote]Patrick Williams wrote:
As noted on numerous other threads, “fitness” authors gotta eat too. They need to come up with stuff to write about, or they are just stuck writing about the same old stuff which won’t sell much.
[/quote]

Therein lies the problem with this whole industry and why I got the fuck out (I was a Kinesiology undergrad and considered for a long time doing my graduate work in nutrition or exercise physiology; did some S&C interning at my school).

People will “come up with stuff” just to sell books, supplements, routines, etc. Very few come up with real, new, helpful information. Like my intern boss said, “This shit ain’t rocket science. People wanna’ make it more than it really is…”

people looking for anyway around hardwork, self-discipline and patience is not a new concept.
neither is people who set out to take these saps for everything they can.
don’t stress out about T-Nation articles, infomercials and magic beans.

To me it all goes back to everyone needs to learn what works for them based on their goals, training experience, age, injuries, lifestyle, genetics, etc. There is no one size fits all training method.

I am an over 35 lifter but I’m not a professional athlete who has been beating up his body to the limit for 20 years. So am I going to drop back squatting? Hell no. I like doing them. I feel I need to do them to continue progressing my total body strength. I just won’t do them balls out for 6 months straight. Same with deadlifting. I find heavy deadlifting very satisfying yet hard on my body so I do them occasionally.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
This place is full of great information unfortunately too many people do not know how to handle it.[/quote]

Too many people are looking for the one absolute end-all be-all best-way right answer.

Too bad there is no such thing in the real world.

[quote]swordthrower wrote:
Ok, I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. What would you rather have: one article every month saying espousing the tried and true ways of the classic bodybuilders, or several articles a week with contradictory opinions based on new science/studies/personal experience, which require you to be a critical reader and thinker?

Thanks for listening. Peace.[/quote]

I’d like to point out that I personally am not talking about the articles posted here on T-Nation, but rather the majority of what is espoused throughout the forums.

It seems to me the people most hell-bent on back lashing against something, whether it be bodypart splits, high protein/calorie intake, whatever, are always the people that don’t have any results to back up their bullshit propaganda.

[quote]swordthrower wrote:
Ok, I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. What would you rather have: one article every month saying espousing the tried and true ways of the classic bodybuilders, or several articles a week with contradictory opinions based on new science/studies/personal experience, which require you to be a critical reader and thinker?

I think the whole point of the articles here are to get you to think outside of your comfort zone. If you honestly don’t agree with the author’s opinions, then so be it. But at least you have been exposed to another opinion and are aware of what is being done in the industry, and where it may be headed in the future.

If Mike Boyle says don’t deadlift, but you deadlift heavy every week anyway, good for you. I know I do, and I do ATG back squats, too just like a lot of people here. But, what if you’re a 38 year old veteran with nagging injuries? Don’t you think an article like Mike’s would help?

Now take CT’s anti-bulking article. It seems to me that he was unfairly criticized by the “I bulked up to 15% BF and made huge gains” crowd. That’s great that they made gains, and were willing to carry around some fat in the process, but CT’s whole point was that for most of us, who will never be standing on a stage in our skivvies, there is no point in spending half of the year fatter than we want to be, so that we can be a little bigger down the road.

Was his article for everyone? NO! But it still should be read by everyone here, and considered.

I agree with you all that the basics will always be a sure bet: Lift hard, rest enough, and eat big. No author here has EVER said otherwise. But, they have offered interesting alternatives for those who have goals which differ from professional bodybuilders’. What about those of us can’t get to the gym 5 days a week to do a standard BB split? Well, a 3 day full-body routine is a perfect fit.

I think it is unfair to call into question the integrity of T-Nation based on a few articles which you don’t agree with. That’s the whole point of this site! Its a think-tank. Please tell me where you can get a group of free-thinking, intelligent, creative people to agree on ANYTHING, let alone something as complex as fitness and nutrition.

Now, the fact that we have a manorexic posting a picture every day is a problem (and saying they eat a TON, like, you know, 2500 calories), but please don’t confuse that unfortunate trend with a series of articles intended to offer some unpopular opinions. Yes, T-Nation has had some unfortunate developments of late, but the writing is certainly not one of them, in my opinion.

Thanks for listening. Peace.[/quote]

I agree here. I’ll play the devil’s advocate; not a stretch for me.

Anyway, I think articles like CT’s latest “The truth about bulking”, are perfect to ‘stir the shitstorm’ or ‘knock the dust off that pussy’ so to speak. They evoke responses from all angles and get to the bottom of debates in no time, and perhaps spark new ones. People are going to believe what they want to anyways to suit their own best interest or defense on a position. Even if the intended material is knowingly false, it’s up to the readers to draw forgone conclusions from it.

The more articles you read that open up peoples eyes and force them to think, the better. If you want to really understand your training and experiences, it doesn’t hurt to look at them from different angles and perspectives, even if you completely disagree with them. I don’t agree with over half of the programs being used because I found better ways, but I still with experiment with them from time to time and see if there’s anything I’m overlooking.

If you were a democrat and could not understand why a republican would think that way, the best thing to do is pretend you’re a republican and try to think like that. Try to understand their point of view… all the while making your point of view that much more valid when you can draw conclusions and fully understand it from all viewing perspectives.

You know, a guy with a 125 I.Q. can only have a 125 I.Q. But, if two people with 125 I.Q.'s came together from opposite thinking patterns, they could actually produce a higher than 125 I.Q. result. Possibly a 140 I.Q., and there you have it. There’s all the reason in the world to be open minded and try to look through the glass from all viewing angles.

[quote]Bauer97 wrote:
swordthrower wrote:
Ok, I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. What would you rather have: one article every month saying espousing the tried and true ways of the classic bodybuilders, or several articles a week with contradictory opinions based on new science/studies/personal experience, which require you to be a critical reader and thinker?

Thanks for listening. Peace.

I’d like to point out that I personally am not talking about the articles posted here on T-Nation, but rather the majority of what is espoused throughout the forums.

It seems to me the people most hell-bent on back lashing against something, whether it be bodypart splits, high protein/calorie intake, whatever, are always the people that don’t have any results to back up their bullshit propaganda.[/quote]

We will never see pictures from these people. However, they will be the FIRST to call out someone else or tell them they don’t know what they are talking about. A guy weighing 145lbs and looking he hasn’t eaten all week posts a picture, and they will be the ones who write, “You look GREAT, don’t listen to those who tell you to eat more”. I think much of this would be solved if it was rule that you don’t give advice unless your picture is somewhere on this board in some way, shape, or form and others know you actually even lift weights.

[quote]shawninjapan wrote:
Not really, if you are in the habit of right thinking.

Find people who have succeeded in accomplishing what you intend to and follow the path they beat to their destination.

If you wanted to get rich, whose advice would you take, Donald Trump’s, or some guy who get’s paid $60,000 a year writing for the Times? Funny thing is, most people spend their most of their time reading the financial advice of journalists, rather than guys who are genuinely rich.

Don’t major in minor shit.

Goodfellow wrote:
Yet most of the contradictory stuff comes from people with so called ‘expertise’ on the field.

It’s hard to know where to start with things if you are just starting out on the BB’ng scene.

[/quote]
Good title and article by the way. This is the most valuable thing I can ever tell anyone. To “follow the source”. I didn’t read anything about bodybuilding when I first started. I saw Arnold Schwarzenegger in the “Terminator” and said “I want to look like that.” My dad knew a little bit about building muscle and gave me a few tips. A short time down the road, my dad would buy me everything there was that I could read about this man and how he trained; that’s about the same time I started to take off. I WENT STRAIGHT TO THE SOURCE. I extrapolated everything I could from the best bodybuilder in the world.

I could give a fuck less what anybody else had to say. He had the best body and I wanted to know how he did it and what HE did… not some douchebag wrestling coach with a fitness degree.

Find the source fellas. I’m sure everyone has one that is perfect for their intended goals.

There are fat guys mostly concerned with losing fat. There are skinny guys who want to add muscle. There are people who want to win bodybuilding competitions, people who want to win power lifting competitions, people who want to optimize their body composition what whatever other sport they’re into, and people who just want to look better nekkid.

All of these goals are different, it is is ridiculous to say that there is a single approach that is right for everyone.

It just takes a little intelligence as you read articles & posts to pull out what is appropriate for your body and your goals.

It is important to consider that many articles are written goal and condition specific.

No writer on here has ever said that any one thing is bad, and shold never be done by anybody.

They are writing something along the lines of
" If you are W, conditions are X and you perform Y, the results will be Z."

What is so hard to understand about that?

Has the comprehension level dropped so low that people can’t understand plain written english, or are people becoming so intelectualy lazy that they can’t be bothered to understand what they have read?

There is a big difference between reading something and looking at words on a page.

It seems like the people doing a lot of the complaining aren’t actualy reading. They are just looking at words.