Lots of interesting discussion towards the end of the Bulking thread. Anonym posted tons of great info. If like to hear more from those studies. Ill copy and paste some of the quotes to get us started here.
QUESTION TO BE DISCUSSED: Does being overweight (excess bodyfat not BS BMI) put someone at risk for heart disease? Is being overweight a risk factor for CVD?
Reposting because apparently it was missed the 3-4 other times I asked
Ok so I went all the way back to page 30, well before this side bar even came up, and didn't see that quote from brick. Could you please point it out? Are you sure you didn't just make that quote up to further your argument? Thanks. His original post about it:
From 6-8-2013 @ 1:30 Page 39 of the Bulking thread.
As a stat major the first thought that pops into my head is this:
Cardiovascular health is greatly improved by cardiovascular exercise.
The vast majority of people getting to 10% and under are using significantly more cardiovascular exercise than someone around 20% when talking about the average human. Would someone maintaining a level of BF around 20% who engaged in productive cardio to improve heart health be at a risk level typical of the average individual at 20% or closer to the average 10% person more similar in terms of cardiovascular training?
Basically I am wondering what the numbers look like when adjusted for cardiovascular training.
I would really like to hear more from thoughts about this because it actually was an interesting topic for the last few pages: LowRez BCT Anonym Bpick Csulli3PO Steely Ryan Prof JoeGood Bauber
lets hear your thoughts. Obviously anyone else who has any info, insight or opinions on the topic are more than welcome to contribute.
I am interested in knowing more about the correlation between bodyfat and health risks. correlation doesnt equal causation and no one has said this. we are talking about risk factors and things that contribute to CVD and other health conditions. pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease dont throw out the genetics card (is that the new race card? lol) obviously there are tons of factors involved we are talking about quantitate and controllable factors.
Good Post!!! I think that a person who is sedentary at 20% would be at a higher risk than an athelete who sits at 20% because of the factors that you listed. This is why I am a proponent of doing cardio while "bulking" shudders at that word it is good for keeping a strong and healthy cardiovascular system which cannot be a bad thing right?
In what fairy dream world are you living in where most of America is healthy?? Don't be dumb just to try to be right, its unbecoming. If you have a good point make it but don't try to prove your point with out right false stupidity.
No, what it is saying is that the leaner you are, the fewer diseases related to carrying extra fat you are diagnosed with. If you can show me where this does not hold true across racial lines then I will concede your point, but please don't be offended if I don't just take your word that lean people are no healthier than not lean people.
The fact that you disagree with it is a far more ridiculous statement. so you think that a graph will just make a 90 degree angle and shoot straight up at the point of obesity?? That makes much more sense than there being a gradual increase in the risk for CVD. Again don't be stupid just so that you don't have to admit that leaner is healthier. As I have had said before, I am carrying extra bodyfat around myself right now, but I am not delusional enough to try to convince myself that I am just as healthy as if I lost down to a much leaner frame.
And don't give me real science. You are essentially telling everyone to take your word for it that the graph (real science) is wrong and your theory about there really not being any difference (bro science) is right. You actually aren't even using bro science, you are just throwing a arguing because someone is suggesting that people are healthier than you.
In fact that coronary risk factor table you posted seems to confirm my thoughts. If you notice 6.3% of the 10% and under crowd are described as having a sedentary lifestyle, while a whopping 40% are sedentary in the very next stratification going up to 20%.
I dunno. Obviously being obese is bad for your health and definitely bad for your heart. If you're like 20% though the data seems to indicate you will be fine if you actually do some cardio.
of course being 20% bf alone doesnt mean you have a CVD death sentence but it just is an indicator that you are potentially at higher risk than if you were leaner. Carrying around lots extra fat isn't good for your body and puts extra stress on your body systems and your joints. I dont think anyone would argue against that. But im sure someone will.
I dont know if looking at this from just bf% is a good idea. Jason huh was ripped to shreds in one of those MD videos, but sounded like he was about to drop dead from a heart attack at any moment. Carrying around excess weight is probably unhealthy no matter what. 5.8-5.9 guys were never meant to weigh 260-300 lbs.
The more I look at this the more interesting I find it. If you look at what is described as "normal fat" ranges, high cholesterol only jumps by about 6% and high BP by only about 3 and a half percent. However once you get into the overly fat and obese ranges all the sudden you're seeing 30+ percent jumps. This sort of does seem to indicate to me that obesity is the big risk factor, and that it is not linearly correlated to bodyfat levels.
Like I mentioned before, I honestly believe the difference between the under-fat and normal-fat levels are due entirely to cardiovascular training. Based on the data there 93.7% of the under-fats did cardio whilst a mere 60% of the normies did cardio. I'm actually surprised the blood pressure and cholesterol differences aren't greater between these groups!
Anyway, I love to nerd out about data... Numbers seem to indicate to me a causal relationship between cardiovascular training and heart disease and also one between obesity and heart disease; wherever you want to define obesity (30% or something?). I think that the normal fat levels are only correlated to higher heart disease risk due to a dramatic difference in cardiovascular exercise on average. I don't think the risk factors are linearly related to bodyfat levels; there appears to be more of a threshold. Of course like I said, it looks like honestly cardio largely trumps bodyfat levels.
That has a lot to do with the myriad of drugs these guys are taking in a daily basis.
Check out this video of someone being honest about their drug regimen. Probably not the smartest move to put all that on YouTube but they guy isn't even a 300 pound top pro and listen to what all he takes. Just more food for thought. Thanks for your input!