T Nation

Body English

Does there come a point where you are lifting so heavy that body english becomes acceptable?

I often watch vidz of the pro’s training. They all use so much body english?

[quote]silverbullet wrote:
Does there come a point where you are lifting so heavy that body english becomes acceptable?

I often watch vidz of the pro’s training. They all use so much body english?[/quote]

within reason I believe its beneficial too use a little body english especially when lifting in excess of 90% of 1 rm, as it can reduce the risk of injury. However it depends on the movement, training age and how well you know your own body. This does not mean you can hitch on deads, half ass on squats, turn barbell curls into whole body movements

It’s really simple:

IF YOU CURL YOUR BODYWEIGHT, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO STAND PERFECTLY STILL WHILE DOING IT.

Also: Pro’s don’t just cheat the weight up and that’s it, they generally resist/control the negative (even if it doesn’t necessarily appear so) and know how to cheat while still hitting the target muscle…

You don’t need to cheat much in some training systems (DC), but definitely some…

Honestly, this has been debated before.
Start off with “proper” form, then, over time, learn to cheat properly.

Proper cheating means still hitting the muscle you want to work without injuring yourself (in curls, one would use leg drive rather than lower back drive, etc).

I would reduce cheating once you get near contest shape though… Seems to be the main time for injury occurring.

Watch this vid of some DC dude doing Pinwheel curls (rest paused, for some reason… forearm exercises are usually straight-setted, but whatever works for him…) as a little example:

Skip LaCour summed it up pretty well.

The form for lifting weights should be done at a good “value.” If the weight is too heavy, your form will be too sloppy too be effective. If the weight you use is too light, you may use great form, but you cannot progress without the challenge of incrementally lifting more weight. It�??s like buying a car. You could buy the most expensive car to insure yourself of high quality. Or, you could buy the least expensive to save money. Ideally, the best choice is a car of both decent quality and price, or “value.” Big weight makes big muscles – period. I try to use the heaviest weight I can lift with decent form.

i always assumed you were to start out with a weight you could get a decent amount of reps out of and then as it gets more difficult you cheat on a few reps just because moving the weight is still moving the weight so if you dont have someone to spot you or its like curls or something by cheating youre just reducing the load on the muscle instead of say having someone put their fingers on the bar. its not a problem in the least if you do it that way.

[quote]derek wrote:
Skip LaCour summed it up pretty well.

The form for lifting weights should be done at a good “value.” If the weight is too heavy, your form will be too sloppy too be effective. If the weight you use is too light, you may use great form, but you cannot progress without the challenge of incrementally lifting more weight. It�??s like buying a car. You could buy the most expensive car to insure yourself of high quality. Or, you could buy the least expensive to save money. Ideally, the best choice is a car of both decent quality and price, or “value.” Big weight makes big muscles – period. I try to use the heaviest weight I can lift with decent form.[/quote]

I’m surprised that no “insert S&C name”-fanboy has chimed in yet to tell us that textbook form is imperative.

I’ve been a big fan of Skip since the old(ish) days when he wrote for IronMan magazine. I was always intrigued by his super-heavy, low-rep training.

I just looked up his name on Youtube and found several samples of his “imperfect” form. Any idiot could pick apart his techniques, but that idiot will more than likely be a skinny, weak crybaby.

[quote]derek wrote:
I’ve been a big fan of Skip since the old(ish) days when he wrote for IronMan magazine. I was always intrigued by his super-heavy, low-rep training.

I just looked up his name on Youtube and found several samples of his “imperfect” form. Any idiot could pick apart his techniques, but that idiot will more than likely be a skinny, weak crybaby.[/quote]

Reminds me of Rühl, for some reason.

Good vid, and you’re right with your comments… Only the small guys bitch about form.

Certain exercises you can cheat on imo…

If I’m doing lat pulldowns and I want to go heavy I may cheat a little but still target the muscles I want hit.

Same with barbell curls and a few others…

Never cheat with squats, deads, and some of the other “can be dangerous to your body” lifts.

I also agree that strict form is crucial when near contest shape because the body seems to be more prone to injury during those times.

I also feel most isolation exercises should be used with good form…maybe a few exceptions. If you cheat on something like the preacher curl then it will get you nowhere…imho…

my .02

DG

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Certain exercises you can cheat on imo…

If I’m doing lat pulldowns and I want to go heavy I may cheat a little but still target the muscles I want hit.

Same with barbell curls and a few others…

Never cheat with squats, deads, and some of the other “can be dangerous to your body” lifts.

I also agree that strict form is crucial when near contest shape because the body seems to be more prone to injury during those times.

I also feel most isolation exercises should be used with good form…maybe a few exceptions. If you cheat on something like the preacher curl then it will get you nowhere…imho…

my .02

DG[/quote]

I agree with not cheating on Deads; Squats, well, I’d just not lock out when doing them, dunno if you consider that cheating (I never lock out on any movements). Bench you can cheat somewhat, imo, but I don’t do it (since I don’t flatbench anyway).

As far as cheating on preachers… Well, on machine preachers I use the same form as most pros… That would be considered cheating, wouldn’t it?
You just gotta learn how to do it…

On another note, you’re rather lean all year around, aren’t you? That would make it more dangerous for you (cheating and Rest-Pausing), imo.
Ever had any such issues?

You obviously know what your doing, but if you ever want to try DC, I’d suggest a little bit of extra fat… Dante wrote some stuff about that (he lets his guys do straight sets instead of RP’s when nearing contest shape, etc).
Also, most of the Pros who “cheat” heavily while close to a contest use GH and such, which likely helps avoid injury (unless that’s all a rumor, I wouldn’t know).

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
derek wrote:
Skip LaCour summed it up pretty well.

The form for lifting weights should be done at a good “value.” If the weight is too heavy, your form will be too sloppy too be effective. If the weight you use is too light, you may use great form, but you cannot progress without the challenge of incrementally lifting more weight. It�??s like buying a car. You could buy the most expensive car to insure yourself of high quality. Or, you could buy the least expensive to save money. Ideally, the best choice is a car of both decent quality and price, or “value.” Big weight makes big muscles – period. I try to use the heaviest weight I can lift with decent form.

I’m surprised that no “insert S&C name”-fanboy has chimed in yet to tell us that textbook form is imperative.
[/quote]

Does that include DC fan boys as well?

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
derek wrote:
Skip LaCour summed it up pretty well.

The form for lifting weights should be done at a good “value.” If the weight is too heavy, your form will be too sloppy too be effective. If the weight you use is too light, you may use great form, but you cannot progress without the challenge of incrementally lifting more weight. It�??s like buying a car. You could buy the most expensive car to insure yourself of high quality. Or, you could buy the least expensive to save money. Ideally, the best choice is a car of both decent quality and price, or “value.” Big weight makes big muscles – period. I try to use the heaviest weight I can lift with decent form.

I’m surprised that no “insert S&C name”-fanboy has chimed in yet to tell us that textbook form is imperative.

Does that include DC fan boys as well?[/quote]

Last time I checked, Dante wasn’t some S&C coach wannabe.