T Nation

Body Comp to Expect with "High Normal” Free T

Building muscle isn’t just about testosterone, genes play a huge part, so if it’s not written in your genes, then 10-15 pounds is not going to happen.

I don’t know if I’ll be able to build 10-15 pounds of muscle, but I know I’ll be lean.

Brando what kind of blood test can you show us? TRT is not going to give you the muscle growth you seek. You need to move to the pharma forum these TRT guys will just confuse/screw you up.
They take a load of BS and have little to know real experience.

That’s a great goal to shoot for brother, and it’s very achievable.

Just food for thought here…Reaching 8% BF and maintaining that level are two completely different things. Don’t get too hung up on that number. 10-12% can be a very good look for you with an added 8-10lbs of muscle, and it probably would be much healthier for you. It sounds like you have three years of eating clean and lifting hard. Genetics aren’t everything, but there is something to be said for your body trying to always obtain its own balance. Your body is always trying to get back to equilibrium, so to maintain something long term that is not natural for you (genetically speaking) means keeping your body in a constant state of unbalance. This is not healthy long term.

For contest reasons, and for personal goals…sure. Go for it. For a way of life, it sounds like a miserable existence.

Keep killing it bro, but don’t forget to live your life and enjoy it every now and then!

Edit to add…

If your trying to gain muscle, you’re going to have to keep the caloric intake high, which means you won’t be doing much for cutting fat. A lot of BB’s will tell you that they have “sweet spot” when it comes to BF% while trying gain muscle mass. Too high and they add too much fat to be able to effectively cut for contests. Too low and they don’t see any gains in muscle. It varies for everyone, but that gaining phase usually finds most BB’s in the 10-15% BF range.

Keeping in mind we are all different with different genetics, I lost 15-20 lbs of fat and gained 10-15 lbs of muscle with TRT. Changes were dramatic at around six months. This was with a reasonable, no junk diet and a basic training program.

My dose is 200mg a week.

I’ve been off trt for almost 3 years and will be going back on shortly and have been asking myself similar questions.

These 2 studies might be worth a read. Your goal seems aggressive but achievable over time.


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@hardlvn my other thread has my bloodwork " Help Understanding Lab Numbers, Appt with Doc Tomorrow And below are my numbers after 6 weeks of TRT

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@bmbrady77 definitely understood there. I leaned down to around 10% last year and just accumulated a bunch of diet fatigue. Been in a very conservative calorie surplus since then trying to gain muscle with very limited fat gain. Been on T for 3 months now and that definitely seems to be at least starting to help with that process. I definitely don’t want to stay at 8% but for things like beach and lake trips etc its nice to look shredded.

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Thanks bud, that is good tangible info there! I’m 3 months in so hoping for some very visible changes this summer.

Those blood T numbers will help you at the gym but at those levels you need to monitor your blood thickness thats HCT and if it gets over 52% you need to go donate a pint of whole blood. If you find you can’t keep your HCT down with 2 donations a year and you need more you need to add ferritin to your mini blood tests. Too many donations can crash your ferritin then your super high lvl TRT is done you will need to drop back to 80mg/wk and rebuild your ferritin. It took me 8 months.

Thanks man. Getting more labs in 2 weeks and following up with doc. I’m sure he’s keeping and eye on the blood counts also.

@hrdlvn, you may have heard both sides of the phlebotomy argument. Are you aware of anything in the literature that says TRT causes blood clots, stroke or heart problems? Some well known doctors (Neal Rouzier) say there is none and the American Urological Association came out with a position paper almost three years ago that TRT does not cause stroke, clots, or heart attacks.

I just know what Defy tells me and if I let my HCT go over 52% I lose my script for T.
Even though I live at altitude they will not accept anything over 52% and I have to admit I have blood pressure issue when my blood gets too think. At 52% my BP goes up 10 points top and bottom. Fro 120 75 to 130 85 so no matter what the literature says my doc and my blood pressure cuff says don’t go there.

Thanks, that’s interesting. Dehydration is a common cause of elevated hct, and with dehydration the BP drops. But, you’re not dehydrated, with an elevated hct. I’ll see if I can dig something up on any association between BP and hct.

Curious on your e2 control if needed?

No AIs, Dr Nichols does not believe it is needed. There is a lot of interesting info out there about all the protective benefits of estrogen and that it should not be blocked when increasing T levels. I’ve read some pretty nasty things about anastrozole also (bone density issues).

So far so good, I’m not experiencing any symptoms of high E2 even though it is elevated. Dr Nichols says elevated E2 with high T is a very good thing

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Love it!

Are you monitoring prolactin? Over range E2 and over range prolactin is how man boobs are made. Is Dr Nichols going to take care of any gyno you get by offering free surgery? Don’t take my word for it google it.

That’s about what I did in a couple months time. Proper diet and work habit you’ll get there. But you want a higher free t not 15 or mid range.

Stan efferdin says he is in 200mg , eats right, and keeps his muscle. I’ve seennplenty of folks on a good trt dose and keeping muscle.

This is a way of life. Feel normal and healthy. I’m more than happy to simply feel good again and
I’ll ccet whatever the gym throws at me.

Prolactin is being monitored. Doc seems to know his stuff, so I am trusting him until I have a reason not to.

Another short sighted and uneducated response
on a topic. One should shy away from Making suggestions if they don’t even know how the body naturally produces Testostorone and or how the axis works.

Show him where every man needs to worry about high e2 causing gyno:

GYNO is not an issue for every man. It happens in a very small percentage of men. It is a genetic issue or a recent genetic Mutation occurred within the body to allow these modules to grow in the breast of men. Most guys know it .

Even Dr. Saya let’s e2 run and only doses an ai when the client had issues. Isn’t that your doc? He doesn’t go on about gyno in his responses.

If one has gyno tell the doc and handle It. Get the surgery or I guess take an ai: but not every man is going to get gyno.