Boatguy's DH/BFB/Juggernaut/Smolov Jr-Road back to 405FS

Your log title caught my attention this morning so I just caught up from your switch from Dark Horse. I’m happy to find someone running B4B so I can follow along before I decide to try it myself.

Sorry to hear about the shoulder. I’m in a similar boat. I used to sublux my right shoulder a lot and had surgery in 2004 to tighten it up. I think it’s loosened up again and it’s starting to give me problems. I can’t reach across my body to pick up a glass of water without pain.

Hope yours settles down soon so you can get back on track!

Not sure what’s going on with it, but it seems to have calmed down. I took celebrex and naproxen last night after it happened, and was pain free within thirty minutes. Took both again with my last meal before going to bed this morning (before reading that taking both together increases chances of gut issues - yay me). I’m now over 12 hours without either, and still pain free. I’m not going to take anything unless it starts bothering me, and if it continues to stay pain free then I’ll try the gym again tomorrow. Still not sure what the hell, but if it’s gone then I’m fine with that.

Woke up still with no pain in the shoulder (no NSAIDs since the morning of the 2nd - my bedtime), so I hit the gym. Had mentioned to the doc a couple times that I was still pain-free without NSAIDs, so he thinks (same thing I was thinking) that I pinched something and it fixed itself, essentially. Whatever it was, no pain, so time to get back to work.

1 Like

04 July 2018

Have just enough time before I travel to get in one solid week following BFBattle to the letter, so here begins:

BFBattle Day 1
3RM

Front Squat - 135 x 10/185 x 5/3 x 225/275/315/365
Bench - 135 x 10/185 x 5/3 x 225/255/275/285
Rack SGHP - 3 x 135/155/185/185/185/185
Wtd Pullup - 3 x BW/BW/40/50/60/XXX
OHP - 65 x 5/3 x 95/115/135/145/XXX

So, got through the 3RM ‘test’ with no pain or any other issues.
The discerning reader may notice a couple things: some exercises have more sets notated than others, and certain exercises didn’t go very high in weight. Ah, good catch. Allow me to explain, touching on the second point first, and the first point last.

Two exercises, pullups and SGHP, I did not test for a 3RM. SGHP, I have a good idea of where my form breaks down rep/weight wise, so I skipped over that one. Pullups - I am using a length of tubular 1" nylon (tied into a loop using a water knot) rather than a dip belt with chain, and therefore am somewhat limited to using dumbbells (if I can find some other items, I may try some experimenting to broaden my lifting horizons here, so to speak). Given the weights of dumbbells available to me, I have a ‘system’ in place for which DBs to use on which days at which given percentages, so that I can increase and decrease the amount lifted at the assigned reps as needed. Confusing? re-read it a couple times till it makes sense - I’ll wait here.

Back already? Cool, moving on.

As to the first point (more sets for certain exercises): when I hit my 3RM for certain movements in the circuit but still had room to move in others, I dropped those ‘maxed out’ ones rather than repeat at the same or lower weights. Saved a little time and energy, that’s all.

So, decent day although a bit shorter overall - completed this in 46:10, and really wasn’t trying to beat the clock or anything. I actually tried picking up the pace about 3 sets in, because I felt I was taking my time a little too much.

Working 3RMs for this training week:
Front Squat - 365
Bench - 285
SGHP - see above
Wtd Pullup - same
OHP - 145

I still plan on using deadlifts on 2 days (lower percentage days), and will most likely drop a little under my most recent 1RM of 500 to figure weights from (haven’t decided on that for certain yet).

05 July 2018
Built For Battle
Day 2

Front Squat(365) (135 x 10 w/u) - 3 x 185/225/275/ /5 x 290/4 x 315/3 x 335/2 x 345/1 x 365
Bench(285) - 10 x 135/3 x 185/205/ /5 x 225/4 x 245/3 x 255/2 x 275/1 x 285
Rack SGHP - 3 x 135/135/155/ /5 x 175/4 x 185/3 x 195/2 x 205/1 x 215
Wtd Pullup - 3 x BW/BW/40/ /5 x 50/4 x 60/3 x 70/2 x 82.5/1 x 88
OHP(145) - 5 x 65/3 x 85/105/ /5 x 115/4 x 125/3 x 130/2 x 140/1 x 145
Warm Up - under 14:00
Total - 58:31

I was feeling a little tired going into this - maybe tired isn’t the right word, more like having trouble fully waking up and getting moving. Part way through the warm up sets I felt like I was up and moving, so that works. Felt like I was moving faster during the circuits, but after looking at my total time I apparently wasn’t. Got some good work done, though, and was happy with it at the end.

1 Like

06 July 2018
BFBattle
Day 3

Deadlift(500 1RM) - 3 x 275/275/315/ /5 x 365/4 x 385/3 x 415/2 x 435/1 x 460
Bench(285) - 10 x 135/5 x 155/3 x 185/ /5 x 205/4 x 220/3 x 235/2 x 250/1 x 265
Rack SGHP - 3 x 135/135/135/ /5 x 155/4 x 165/3 x 175/2 x 185/1 x 195
Wtd Pullup - 3 x BW/BW/BW/ /5 x 40/4 x 50/3 x 60/2 x 70/1 x 82.5
OHP(145) - 10 x 65/3 x 85/96/ /5 x 105/4 x 115/3 x 120/2 x 125/1 x 135
Warm Up - 14:32
Total - 57:01

Assistance Circuit 1
Cable Row - 10 x 140/8 x 165(150)/6 x 165
Incline DB Press - 10 x 55/8 x 65/6 x 70
BSS (L&R) - 10 x 60/8 x 70/6 x 70(82.5)
SG RDL - 10 x 315/8 x 315(335)/XXX
26:47

Didn’t feel as tired today as I did yesterday, but I definitely had some trouble waking up. The last two days I’ve somehow managed to get into that deep dreaming stage of sleep right around the time my alarm is set to go off, which makes it hard to wake up. Feel like I’m trying to shake off a sleeping pill or something. Felt alright by the time I got over to the gym, though.

The point of this (or at least, part of it) is to try and improve total times as you progress through. In spite of feeling like I’m moving along fairly well during the circuits, my total has been sucking and not improving. Definitely bogged down once I hit the assistance circuit. Was still feeling pretty good coming off the main circuits, and set the assistance weights accordingly (also trying to progress from last time I did that one). As you can see, I had to make some adjustments mid-stream as the last vestiges of energy fled my body. The different numbers on cable row were for a separate reason though - the number in parentheses was the intended weight for that set. When I came back around for the third round and was setting weights, I realized I had either set the pin in the wrong hole or moved it when I didn’t intend to, not sure which. Either way, the second set was supposed to be using 150, but it was set at 165 (I am estimating here - the weight stack on this multi-station cable machine have no numbers on them; the weights increase in size as you go down the stack, so I am assuming the first set are 10 each, then 15 each, and either 20 or 25 for the biggest plates at the bottom - haven’t used those yet so it doesn’t really matter; going with those numbers because that is how I have seen similar machines set up in gyms before). So rounds 2 and 3 were both done using 165 for single arm cable row. On BSS and RDL, I was going to increase weight each round (and did on BSS for the second round). As you can see, that didn’t last long and I dropped RDL from the last round. Next time I do this assistance circuit (once I am home) I will lower the starting weight again - this was a little too much after deadlifting in the main circuit.

Felt worn out after all of this - to be fair, it’s a decent amount of work. But I have enjoyed doing BFB in the past - you wouldn’t think you could move this kind of weight in a circuit fashion, but you can (speaking percentage wise). For whatever reason, my midsection was swelling during DH while my overall weight was slowly dropping. Now my weight is back where I wanted it, and stabilized while my middle has gone back to normal. Not saying ‘Dark Horse made me fat!’, just saying that this style of training seems to agree with me better than DH. My appetite was for shit on DH, I wonder if my digestion was effected as well (and it was literally food and shit making my middle bigger).

2 Likes

Hey Dinghy
The first workout on BFB you had your 3RM in pharantes before each lift.
That was very helpful information :slight_smile:
You seem pretty beat up, when I did the old BFB the first weeks I felt great, but ended beaten up.

Are you timing your rest between exercises? If so, which interval are you using?

I don’t feel too beat up (aside form the odd injuries - I swear I don’t normally get dinged up this often), and what I am feeling I think is residual from DH - I only took like a day between the two programs.

As for the parentheses 3RMs, I’ll go back and edit that.

1 Like

Normally I try to keep my rest to about a minute, or shorter if I’m feeling really good for some reason. On DH (giant sets) is was going around 2 minutes.

Currently, I am using the old BFBad recommendations and only resting for around 30 seconds (we have a Rogue gym timer on the wall, so I just keep an eye on it rather than hitting start and stop on something). When I mention that I feel like I am moving faster than the clock tells me I am, I think I am losing track of time occasionally and resting longer. The other issue is the between-round goal for adjusting weight is 2:00. I am hitting closer to 4:00 (and in some cases more). This is because I am not pre-staging weight. When I did BFBad in the past, I would gather all the plates I needed for each station and pre-stage - this cut down time between rounds but increased set-up time considerably. Doing it in the gym was necessary, to ensure I had the plates I needed without having to wander around looking for whatever. Here, I have the gym to myself so I haven’t been bothering.

1 Like

That’s all good to know. I think I’m going to run Built for Battle for three weeks once I figure out how to schedule it. Saturdays are my problem. I work 0700-1700 and go straight to church after work. My parents come over for dinner after that.

That leaves me early in the morning and that’s not my favorite time to squat. But Saturdays are the lightest days so I might be able to pull it off.

If Sunday’s aren’t an issue, just push the whole schedule left -
3RM on SUN
Day 2 - MON
Day 3 - TUE
WED off
Day 4 - THU
Day 5 - FRI

That makes the week worse. I’m off work Mon, Tues, Wed. If I shift everything then I’m trying to train on three work days instead of two.

Now that I realize that Saturday is a lighter day I think I could do the main circuit early before work and then go back and do the assistance circuit during my 30 min lunch break. I might have to break the main circuit up to do it in my basement. I could do squat, OHP, and rows and then pair deadlifts and bench.

It’s starting to come together in my mind. I guess a little trial and error will tell me how it will feel to train Friday evening and Saturday morning. I might also push Saturday to Sunday but leave everything else the same so I’d be training Sun-Wed and Friday.

It’s only going to be three or four weeks anyway.

1 Like

Thibs has said on his forum that breaking up the main circuit is still doable, while not being optimal. And if you were only breaking the circuit that one training day you’d still get the benefits with only slight drawback (in my mind).

Not sure about training SUN, that would put you training the day before your 3RM ‘test’ day. I’m thinking a day off before that would be better.

When I am home, SAT and SUN get busy for me. For that reason, I have thought about dropping the 3RM day and increasing weight based off a blend of ideas from BFBad and Battle. BFBad told you to increase the weights on your lifts by 5 pounds every week (when/if you could). BFBattle (obviously) uses the 3RM test on Monday to set the weights for each week, with day 4 being another ‘test’ day - attempting 105 and 110% of 3RM. If I drop the 3RM day, I will increase weights for the week after a successful 105 and/or 110% lift (haven’t decided on exactly how I will determine that yet, or even if I will go that route). I usually follow programs written by someone else, but do a fair amount of tweaking to make it work for me and my schedule.

2 Likes

Lifting Sunday could be detrimental to Monday’s workout; however, I’d only be hitting 90% of the 3RM for 1 rep. I kind of assume that’s going to feel like a light day. The assistance circuit could do some harm since you’re pushing the reps.

I can understand dropping the 3RM day and seeing how four days a week goes. If I completed all of the reps for one week then I’d feel comfortable adding weight to the bar. If you fail to hit 3 reps with the “new” 3RM on Day 4 then keep the weights the same for the following week. That’s just good old fashioned progression.

The only downside of dropping the 3RM day is that you’re losing a day of training, but you’re still doing everything four days a week which is twice as much as most programs.

1 Like

I do like the setup for BFBattle, every week you push for a 3RM to determine the weeks training sessions. That is a great autoregulation way to do it, if you push a great PR one week, then due to fatigue/recovery issue next week might be less, with better performance.
I did the old BFB and had to divide it to 2 circuits, probably not the best but I liked it.

08 July 2018
BFBattle
Day 4 (Heavy Day)

Front Squat(365) (135 x 10 w/u) - 3 x 185/225/275/ /5 x 325/4 x 345/3 x 365/1 x 385(no second rep, didn’t attempt 405)
Bench(285) - 10 x 135/3 x 185/225/ /5 x 255/4 x 270/3 x 285/2 x 300/1 x 315
Rack SGHP - 3 x 135/155/175/ /5 x 185/4 x 195/3 x 205/2 x 215/1 x 225
Wtd Pullup - 3 x BW/40/50/ /5 x 60/4 x 70/3 x 82.5/2 x 88/1 x 100
OHP(145) (75 x 10 w/u) - 3 x 95/115/125/ /5 x 135/4 x 140/3 x 145/2 x 155/1 x 160(!)
Warm Up - 15:36 (seriously, WTF)
Total - 73:15

So, this day SUCKS. ASS. I like this program, but today sucks. Going for these higher weights in this fashion is really a kick in the ass.

Front squats felt better this week than when I started this workout last week. Last week, I started with 185 for the warm up, which was a mistake. I usually start with 135 for 10, which feels light as shit now - when I unracked it, I popped up a little harder than I meant to and had to reset the weight before starting (it didn’t quite hop clear of my shoulders, but it definitely came close). When I started with 185 last week, my legs just didn’t feel as ‘loose’ as they normally do. After starting at 135 (I also threw in a few box jumps to try and get the ol’ CNS going) before starting the clock, I felt much better - at least early in the workout. Today’s weights got heavy a lot faster than usual. Pushed through, felt alright at 365, maybe a little wobbly in the body. Tried putting on a belt for 385 - seemed a bit more sturdy at first, then started to lose it forward coming out of the hole on the first rep. Experience tells me when that happens on the first rep, it typically gets worse on each subsequent so I racked it and called it there - the last two sets are ‘attempts’ anyways. Still kind of irks me - I was on the verge of 405 for a year or so but life and work kept getting in the way. Finally got it fall of '16, less than a week before tearing my bicep tendon. Managed to work around it and keep most of my strength up during post-op recovery and squeezed out 405x1 again a couple weeks after I was cleared to lift again - this would have been late winter/early spring '17. Ever since that one, every time I get close to it my upper back folds like a cheap card table. I’ve tried a couple different things for strengthening my upper back to no avail - I put on some thickness up there but my form issue got no better. I need to start filming my front squat (at least the heavier weight sets, where my form starts to suffer) and see what I can figure out. Trying to think what partial ROM or variations I can use to help strengthen that as well.

Bench felt pretty good, not much to write here. About half the bars we have here are so rusted that it’s hard to see where the knurling starts. I was benching with one of the bars that is still chromed enough to see the knurling (I use this as landmarks for where to set my hands), but it has a pretty good bend to it which was causing my bench to feel unstable (possibly my fault, from when I dumped a heavy front squat a couple weeks ago - it bounced on the benches I set for safeties, pretty sure this is the same bar from then). Since i was going heavier, I swapped it out with another. Wasn’t thinking about it, and ended up with a bar that was difficult to read the landmarks for hand spacing. Pretty sure my hands were in a slightly different spot every set, possibly even offset to one side or the other.

High Pulls - nothing to talk about here. I can just about do these in my sleep at this point. Pro tip: if you have trouble putting mass on your traps, go find the videos Thibs has made teaching this move and give it a try for a few weeks. This move has put more mass on my traps than anything else - I can’t remember the last time I did shrugs.

Pullups - same as SGHP. Worked up to the heaviest DB we have, the 100. If you can’t figure out where I found DBs that weight 82.5 and 88 pounds, those two sets are kilo DBs. I did the math so you wouldn’t have to (same with the 100, it’s a 45 so technically it’s 99 but close enough as doesn’t count).

Overhead Press felt pretty solid today, I was definitely happy getting 160 even if it was only for 1 rep. Not a PR, but the heaviest I’ve pressed in a while - and it was a pretty smooth movement as well, not overly fast but not a grinder. Goldilocks speed. After finishing the last circuit and putting away all my weights, I was going to do some lateral raises just to increase the total weekly tonnage for my delts. Got towards the end of the first set (30 x 5), and started feeling pain in the same place I tweaked it last week. So no lateral raises.

Yes, you read that time total correctly. I was definitely taking longer between sets on this one. Partially due to the heavier weights, but largely due to just plain old procrastination. At one point I even said to myself, ‘now you’re just procrastinating’, and then (as if to prove it to myself) picked up a DB and carried it back to the rack even though I hadn’t finished the round yet. I even pre-staged most of the weights and it didn’t seem to make much of a difference. <On a side note, I ran out of 45 pound plates tonight. OHP was done with 25s and a bunch of 10s (5s and 2.5s as well, obviously> As much as I hate to admit it, this program is beating me up a bit more than I expected. To be fair though, I didn’t take any time off in the shift from DH to this - the last day I was supposed to lift on the DH routine (bench day) I switched and did this instead. So one day off between DH and BFBattle. I have one more day left in this training week, which just happens to coincide with my travel days to get home, which will eat up most of the week (and then I’ll be jet lagged for the rest). Weird, you’d almost think I planned it this way… This will give me basically a week off, then I’ll pick back up in my (commercial) gym back home - just have to figure out the deadest time to do it. I’ve gotten used to lifting within 45 minutes to an hour of getting out of bed (no joke), so maybe I’ll continue and hit the gym first thing in the morning. Should be fairly dead around that time.

2 Likes

I have no business posting this because you’re way ahead of me in terms of strength, but I have some theoretical ideas. Yes, they’re theoretical because I haven’t actually used them.

Paused front squats with the pause being wherever you fold. Isometrics are also supposed to help so you could put the bar on the safety bars or pins at your weak point, load it with 100+% of your max, and try to squat it. I think 5 sec sets are plenty long.

Hey, I’ll take ideas from anyone - or at least listen to them and then decide if they have merit.

Paused is a decent idea, and that gave me another idea I might try. I forget what they’re called, but the bar would be on the safety pins low enough where I am setting up and driving out of the hole to start the set. Some supramax holds for time (at lockout) might help as well, basically anything to reinforce that position.

2 Likes

Great write up Dinghy :slight_smile:

I might be the weakest guy around here.
But on the DH I’ve started doing some Zerchers hold for 10 - 15 seconds as part of the main giant set. (do not know if the Zercher hold exists as a proper exercise, but they work for me).
Focus on staying upright and squeezing the upper back.
So try the zerchers hold or shift the front squat with zercher squats. Thibs loves them a lot.

1 Like