[quote]Reef wrote:
So what do you guys recommend for strength off the chest? More shoulder work?[/quote]
Beyond what has alreay been mentioned: You might try cambered bar work, or the dread military press. Full range dumbell presses might be good too.
Obviously; treat your rotators right and watch for impingement issues.
Yes, My previous training cycle would dictate that using boards even at the highest levels can yield improvements in raw bench. For example, (going into a meet this past september) I used what I call contrast board press as assistance after shirt benching. I often used the 5 and 3 boards in that order for six sets; three sets at each height waving the weights in an increasing fashion and going for a pr on each board for the last sets. I used the 5 board set as set up for my 3 board set. this reads just like a classic Ian King wave pattern with a little old school westside (meaning Gearge Frenn old) concept of high/low box squats except with board press.
Ending results: Meet 523 (metal viking), training 5 board 515, training 3 board 470, training regular/ to chest 405x3, 425x1. previous bests raw was 365.
Pete Arroyo
i would try to find a cambered bar, the range of mation is much greater, which will allow you to press from a deeper position.
my gym sucks we dont have a cambered bar. id have to like buy one and bring it or something lol
If you do buy a macdonald or cambered bench bar then jesup gym has a nice one for $75 ($105 shipped).
[quote]Reef wrote:
So what do you guys recommend for strength off the chest? More shoulder work?[/quote]
For strength off the chest:
military press with bar or dumbells, dumbell presses (incline and flat), dips, and chain or Blast Strap pushups
[quote]redsox348984 wrote:
would boards still be a good idea if you only bench raw?[/quote]
Yes. 1 to 5 boards. 1 and 2 for max effort and 3, 4, and 5 for triceps.
Your need for boards depends on where you weakness is, but in general I would say 1 & 2 board
in my opinion,one of the best exercises for increase you raw bench is medium-grip (pinky on the rings) decline presses. the effectiveness of this exercise is dependant upon how much of an arch you have when pressing - if you have a big arch, declines should be one of your bread&butter exercises.
[quote]BradleyGrunner wrote:
Reef wrote:
So what do you guys recommend for strength off the chest? More shoulder work?
For strength off the chest:
military press with bar or dumbells, dumbell presses (incline and flat), dips, and chain or Blast Strap pushups
[/quote]
how does mil press help off the chest?
[quote]lavi wrote:
BradleyGrunner wrote:
Reef wrote:
So what do you guys recommend for strength off the chest? More shoulder work?
For strength off the chest:
military press with bar or dumbells, dumbell presses (incline and flat), dips, and chain or Blast Strap pushups
how does mil press help off the chest?[/quote]
By strengthening your shoulders
[quote]malonetd wrote:
lavi wrote:
BradleyGrunner wrote:
Reef wrote:
So what do you guys recommend for strength off the chest? More shoulder work?
For strength off the chest:
military press with bar or dumbells, dumbell presses (incline and flat), dips, and chain or Blast Strap pushups
how does mil press help off the chest?
By strengthening your shoulders
[/quote]
I thought the bottom was mostly a chest issue, middle mostly shoulders, and top mostly tris?
Since we are having a discussion about raw benching, I’ve got a question.
In competition, the rules require you come to a dead stop for approx 1 sec before pressing (bar must be motionless and no reverse movement allowed. I think this would be the true issue for a raw bench.
So my question would be posed as this…what works the pause at the bottom? Suspended, from pins, etc. don’t appear to ‘truely’ work the pause because you aren’t holding the weight there. Any suggestions?
From what I’ve seen of ‘shirts’, they appear to do the majority of the work at the pause by artificially simulating the stretch reflex. I would be of the opinion that raw benching should be ‘touch and go’ like the squat. (NOT BOUNCE and go!!!)
[quote]ruglayer09052000 wrote:
Since we are having a discussion about raw benching, I’ve got a question.
In competition, the rules require you come to a dead stop for approx 1 sec before pressing (bar must be motionless and no reverse movement allowed. I think this would be the true issue for a raw bench.
So my question would be posed as this…what works the pause at the bottom? Suspended, from pins, etc. don’t appear to ‘truely’ work the pause because you aren’t holding the weight there. Any suggestions?
From what I’ve seen of ‘shirts’, they appear to do the majority of the work at the pause by artificially simulating the stretch reflex. I would be of the opinion that raw benching should be ‘touch and go’ like the squat. (NOT BOUNCE and go!!!)[/quote]
Why not just do pause benching. You could even try extended pause benching(holding for 2-5 seconds). I’ve never tried this but I imagine throwing this in there for a couple weeks would get you feeling very comfortable and cofident holding weight on your chest.
review some of CT’s isometric training shit for this on the chest pause training… its pretty innovative.
I myself get through my weak out of the hole, by laying on floor, and using dumbbells.But I have other friends who lift that like to go to the squat rack and use the pins to stop short of all the way down.
peace
There are several things you can do to help with the pause. Mike McDonald never trained with a pause from what I heard, but he did okay in competition (603 raw @ 242). How much work you need to do with pauses will probably be an individual thing. Training with paused reps for periods of time (and varying the length of the pause a bit) is probably the easiest way to work on it.
And the pause in competition really isn’t a big deal. It doesn’t feel nearly as long as you think it might. I also like that some feds give you a “press” command. It is good for me mentally, as I will just bring the bar down, and then just focus on staying tight until I hear “press”, then I just turn on a switch and try to blow the weight up as fast as possible.
[quote]lavi wrote:
malonetd wrote:
lavi wrote:
BradleyGrunner wrote:
Reef wrote:
So what do you guys recommend for strength off the chest? More shoulder work?
For strength off the chest:
military press with bar or dumbells, dumbell presses (incline and flat), dips, and chain or Blast Strap pushups
how does mil press help off the chest?
By strengthening your shoulders
I thought the bottom was mostly a chest issue, middle mostly shoulders, and top mostly tris?[/quote]
Can anyone me out. Is this incorrect?
[quote]lavi wrote:
lavi wrote:
malonetd wrote:
lavi wrote:
BradleyGrunner wrote:
Reef wrote:
So what do you guys recommend for strength off the chest? More shoulder work?
For strength off the chest:
military press with bar or dumbells, dumbell presses (incline and flat), dips, and chain or Blast Strap pushups
how does mil press help off the chest?
By strengthening your shoulders
I thought the bottom was mostly a chest issue, middle mostly shoulders, and top mostly tris?
Can anyone me out. Is this incorrect?[/quote]
As I’ve gotten stronger and improved in the powerlifting style of bench, my pecs almost have become a dynamic stabilizer rather than a prime mover. If I’ve got my arch up, I really get sore in the lats. If you are super tight, by building the lats and traps, the bar can almost rise the first inch just due to muscle compression.
I see the bench in 3 stages now: 1) super tight set up to get it started; 2) the subscapular muscles almost wedge under the bar at that point, in other words, for me “shoulder” mean jamming or wedging the shoulder BLADES under the weight. 3) Finally the lockout.
I don’t thing about working the front delts any more, but rather the training a kind of scapular “tilting” or rotation-in other words scapula, not delts.
Finally, for me, raw, training the lockout with an exercise where you move from relaxed to flexed, like momentarily paused board presses, usually gives me about 10 pounds over what I could move otherwise, but you have to keep them up or your lockout will become weak. A wide 4 board press by the way would be just above my lockout when I am getting a real good set-up.
The real key to bringing up your raw bench, in my opinion, long term, when you get over 350 or so is to train for tightness so that your form doesn’t slip when you put on that last 10 pounds. When I go from about 90% max to a 100% max, I have found that my arch starts to drop just a tad.
This changes the angle of the muscles relative to the weight and you shoulders start to get over-rotated at ever so slightly at the bottom which puts them into a much les stable position.
[quote]lavi wrote:
malonetd wrote:
lavi wrote:
BradleyGrunner wrote:
Reef wrote:
So what do you guys recommend for strength off the chest? More shoulder work?
For strength off the chest:
military press with bar or dumbells, dumbell presses (incline and flat), dips, and chain or Blast Strap pushups
how does mil press help off the chest?
By strengthening your shoulders
I thought the bottom was mostly a chest issue, middle mostly shoulders, and top mostly tris?[/quote]
ALL musclees are involved in the bench from bottom to top.
increasing the utilization of the shoulders off the bottom make hte initial drive stronger. Reducing your shoulders involvemnet off the chest is good for equipped benching, but pointless for unequipped where you dont have something providing extra force off the chest.