Bloodwork In. Help with My TRT Regime and Reaching My Goals

iambackjack · May 30, 2019, 5:01pm

Hi Guys,

This forum has been so much help and you guys have really been great on offering guidance on my previous threads.

My latest blood-work doesn’t seem good and I could really use some help.

Here are my results:

Important Notes:

This test was done at 8pm
No exercise had been done for 48hrs
No ejaculation for 48hrs
I had been on a calorie deficit for the last 8 weeks at 2200 calories
I have been consistently lifting 3 times per week and doing Bjj 4 times per week. This has been very hard to recover from and I was feeling more and more warn out.

My Physical Info:
Age
38

Training History:
I have been training hard for 5 years. 2 years cutting from 288lbs to 178lbs then bulking back up. I know I really overdid the calories on the bulk, lesson learned.

Weight:
103kg (227lbs) and I started the year at 110kg (242.5lbs)

Bodyfat:
Approx 20%

Lifts (I feel I have lost a significant amount with only a lattice weight loss):

Bench
100kg x12 or 1x125kg (used to be 137.5kg before I started cutting)

Squat
140kg x 1 (used to be 155kg)

Deadlift
140x4 (deadlift hurts my back and keeps giving me injuries, even when supervised by a coach or high level PT, so my numbers aren’t good).

Diet:

I weigh most my meals and can be very disciplined
Protein 225g to 250g per day with approx 60g from whey isolate either first thing in the AM or post workout.
Carbs 150g with only veg after 7pm
Fat at least 20% of all calories
Fish Oils
Creatine
Vitamin D
it has been harder than I expected dropping the weight considering 2200 calories and how hard I train.

Goals:
10% BF at 93kg (205lbs) to 98kg (216lbs)

I want to look very athletic but not unnatural. More physique/athlete and less Pro BB.

TRT Options:
I have consulted with Balance My Hormones and below are the options available to me as I said I don’t want use a cream (Dosages to be confirmed by my Doctor Consultation in a couple weeks but indicative levels are below)

Sustanon:
125mg every 5 days or 175mg every 7 days
With high SHBG 7 days is preferred
Around £100 £120 per month

Test Enanthate:
175mg per week but might be higher with my higher with my SHBG
£150 per month

Test Propionate:
(Rarely used but available)
100mg every 3 days

£unknown but most expensive

HCG
£75 per month

Please note price is not a concern

She also indicated my free test should be between 0.5 and 1 which is 2X to 4x my free test result.

I might need an estrogen blocker as my estrogen levels are on high side of normal.

Questions Please:

What is the likely impact of taking my blood at night vs in the morning? Could be results be in the normal range in the AM when fasted?
Could overtraining reduce T levels this much below the normal range at night?
What is regarded as the best test option for consistent and steady T levels?
Do any of the above Test options lend themselves better to a blast and cruise regime down the line?
It is my understanding some people successfully blast with as little as 200mg/250mg a week. Is this correct and does this mean
Is there a supplement that reduces SHBG and is it relatively safe?
For a mild/medium blast would one just up the test or add in something Anavar? How much should be added for the best ratio of results vs sides?

Here is a current pic and some historic pics when i was my leanest at 178lbs:

Thank you all for the amazing help! This forum has been so helpful to me!

systemlord · May 30, 2019, 5:41pm

Normally when producing testosterone naturally we test in the morning when levels are highest, but on TRT is doesn’t matter morning or midday.

Overtraining can reduce natural Test levels, but not exogenous testosterone. This gives you an advantage natural men would only dream.

More frequent injections keeps levels more steady and trough levels higher, this also adds a benefit which lowers estrogen levels allowing you to either fogo estrogen blockers and/or reduce the dependency on these drugs which degrade the benefits of TRT.

The use of insulin syringes is recommended, 27-29 gauge injecting in the shoulders and quads. There are high SHBG men on TRT injecting daily and doing very well because they are not blocking estrogen. The aromatase process is known to help with brain function, blocking estrogen is counterproductive to this process.

You want less bone density and deprive the brain of estrogen, use an estrogen blocker. Sometimes a low dose estrogen blocker can benefits some men who are just high converters.

You want to be healthy long term and you should be looking for consistency.

TRT or excess androgens is king at lowering excess SHBG levels.

iambackjack · May 31, 2019, 8:32am

Thank you @systemlord!

Can I ask you a a few question please?

My previous blood work, 3 months prior, was done at 11am fasted and I was in the normal range. I attach the results.

Shifting to a blood test, 3 months later, in the evening and after 3 months of hard training (4 days BJJ and 3 days lifting hard) and mild calorie restriction, my bloods came back well outside of the normal range.

Could I be in the normal range and I am just over trained and skewed my results by taking the test at night?
My gut tells me I likely have the symptoms of low T, hence why i have taken multiple blood tests, but I don’t have any friends who can lift what’s i lift and train hard like I do (not being cocky and I know my lifts aren’t impressive to those who do lift hard) and this is making me doubt things.

My symptoms are:

Bad sleep quality (often wake up and toss and turn)
I had a sleep study done and they said I may have mild apnea but nothing major.
feeling down
low energy
I sometimes feel achy.
I have not been able to achieve a 315lbs bench for over 1 year, despite hitting 300 over 1 year prior with a little headroom, even when bulking and training regularly.

I have no issue getting an erection, but often don’t wake up with wood and struggle for a “second round” with the mrs unless I have a couple hours to recover.

Once I start TRT there is no going back, so I just want to be sure my symptoms are likely related to low T before I misdiagnose myself. Maybe I am just being a puss1e but wanted to tap in to a great resource for knowledge first.

Would you consider my previous blood results “in the normal range” still likely to cause my symptoms?

Are my latest bloods valid or did having them done at night and after 3 months of hard training and mild calorie deficit throw things off too much?

Thank you very much! I truly all the help guys!

maximilian985 · May 31, 2019, 8:45am

You could try boosting your Testosterone with supplements. Zinc and D-Aspartic Acid are known to boost natural testosterone levels.

iambackjack · May 30, 2019, 10:47pm

I have started a new thread as now it appears I do have Low T and need to finalise my protocol along with my first blast. I could really use some help.

I had a male hormone finger prick test done recently at 8pm.

My results showed Low T:

This translates to:
Free T of 6.28 ng/dL
Total T of 461 ng/dL

Important Notes:

This test was done at 8pm
No exercise had been done for 48hrs
No ejaculation for 48hrs
I had been on a calorie deficit for the last 8 weeks at 2200 calories
I have been consistently lifting 3 times per week and doing Bjj 4 times per week. This has been very hard to recover from and I was feeling more and more warn out.

My Physical Info:

Age
38

Training History:
I have been training hard for 5 years. 2 years cutting from 288lbs to 178lbs then bulking back up. I know a really overdid the calories on the bulk, lesson learned.

Weight:
103kg (227lbs) and I started the year at 110kg (242.5lbs)

Bodyfat
Approx 20%

Lifts (I feel I have lost a significant amount with only a lattice weight loss):
Bench:
100kg x12 or 1x125kg (used to be 137.5kg before I started cutting)

Squat:
140kg x 1 (used to be 155kg)

Deadlift:
140x4 (deadlift hurts my back and keeps giving me injuries, even when supervised by a coach or high level PT, so my numbers aren’t good).

Goals:
10% BF at 93kg (205lbs) to 98kg (216lbs)

I want to look very athletic but not unnatural. More physique/athlete and less Pro BB.

I want to minimise sides while achieving my goals.

TRT Options:
I have consulted with Balance My Hormones and below are the options available to me as I said I don’t want use a cream (Dosages to be confirmed by my Doctor Consultation in a couple weeks but indicative levels are below)

Sustanon:
125mg every 5 days or 175mg every 7 days
With high SHBG 7 days is preferred
Around £100 £120 per month

Test Enanthate:
175mg per week but might be higher with my higher with my SHBG
£150 per month

Test Propionate:
(Rarely used but available)
100mg every 3 days
£unknown but most expensive

HCG
£75 per month

Please note price is not a concern

She also indicated my free test should be between 0.5 and 1 which is 2X to 4x my free test result.

I might need an estrogen blocker as my estrogen levels are on high side of normal.

Questions Please:

Of the options above what is regarded as the best test option for consistent and steady T levels?
Do any of the above Test options lend themselves better to a blast and cruise regime down the line?
It is my understanding some people successfully blast with as little as 200mg/250mg a week. Is this correct and does this mean I only need a little bit extra to blast considering my goals?
Is there a supplement/compound that reduces SHBG and is it relatively safe?
For a mild/medium blast would one just up the test or add in something Anavar? How much should be added for the best ratio of results vs sides?

My short term plan is to continue to drop a further 5kg to 7kg while stabilising my TRT protocol. Then start a little blast.

Thank you for the help and advice.

hardartery · May 30, 2019, 11:02pm

Frankly, I don’t think the Sustanon or Test Prop protocols are any good at all. The Sustanon protocol will be too little and not agree with your SHBG levels. You may have heard of people blasting successfully with 200-250 mg, but you’ve heard of unicorns too, neither thing exists. If you’re going to blast, blast. 400 mg is a realistic number for a blast, 500 mg is better. Don’t worry about that for a good while though, dial in the TRT first.

zeek1414 · May 30, 2019, 11:14pm

I would use test E at 75mg every 3 days. Then check bloods to see where your at.

Less pinning with Enanthate ester.

Some people do and enjoy it. I think it’s a waste of time personally. If your going to blast from a cruise dose and run test only might as well run 500mg/week

Proviron and masteron are probably the safest compounds that will lower shbg and allow for more free test.

Once your trt dose is dialed in the options are unlimited. It’s up to you to research all the various compounds and decide what you think is a good fit.

Chris_Colucci · May 31, 2019, 1:55pm

Real quick, it would be best to stop bouncing around with multiple threads - some in TRT and some in Pharma. You’re going to muddle the advice, waste guys’ time and confuse people, and not end up with accurate info.

You’ve been bouncing back and forth between running a cycle vs doing legit TRT for a solid 6 months. You’ve wanted to do a cycle from Day One regardless of the advice you’ve gotten (the first two replies to your very first thread on the site were in favor of TRT instead of a cycle, but you were back two weeks later with two more threads asking about cycles), so just go ahead. I totally get that it’s a major decision to start manipulating hormones, but… dude.

iambackjack · May 31, 2019, 11:12pm

I apologise @Chris_Colucci. It certainly isn’t my intention to cause any confusion or muddle the advice. I am just trying to gather as much info as I can before starting what could likely be a permanent lifelong commitment to TRT.

The last 6 months has involved 3 blood tests, with only the latest one showing sub normal results, hence why I started a new thread as I thought it would be easier for people to get up to speed vs having to read a thread with prior results, etc.

To be honest I am a little anxious and am trying to get advice from you knowledgable guys rather than from someone trying to sell me their medical services.

I sincere thank you for your help for others who take the time to help me out.

iambackjack · June 28, 2019, 10:19pm

Thank you for all the advice.

I had my consultation with my doc and started TRT and HCG treatment. I am glad I took the time to consult a specialist in hormone replacement vs going with Balance my hormones.

Currently on day 3 using cypionate with an initial protocol of 25mg (.2ml) every other day. I am also doing HCG at 200iu every other day.

I suspect this is quite conservative as a starting position and welcome peoples thoughts.

Will do full bloods and tweak things in 4 weeks.

systemlord · June 28, 2019, 10:30pm

You’re supposed to wait 6 weeks before making changes, this is when levels become stable. It may take longer to feel the effects of the protocol.

iambackjack · July 15, 2019, 7:19pm

You are right. I am currently in week 3 and have 3 more to go.

Test cyp and HCG both EOD sub q has alleviated some symptoms (sleep quality has improved some along with libido). I am hoping when fully dialled in it will relieve others.

There have been 3 Days so far when around 3 hours after my shots I feel an amazing sense of wellbeing. Truly incredible.

iambackjack · July 19, 2019, 8:15am

I have been training hard and eating a clean 2,200 calories (200g Protein minimum) per day, but my weight hasn’t been coming down for a few weeks now.

I dropped down to 100.5kg, then a week ago it went up to 101.5kg and now is at 100.9kg. Could starting TRT have caused water retention?

I hate to think that I need to cut my calories even more.

wish4u2 · July 19, 2019, 8:37am

Water retention or muscle gain. Loosing fat and gaining muscle.

hardartery · July 19, 2019, 5:32pm

Don’t cut your calories. You have some water retention (Even if you can’t see it). Long term your body will change and you may actually weigh more, but have less fat. Don’t focus too much on the scale.

iambackjack · August 7, 2019, 10:58pm

6 Week Bloods Are Back:

Testosterone dose / frequency / route
.2 Cypionate EOD

HCG dose / frequency
.2 EOD

Ancillaries - eg. Exemestane dose / frequency:
None

BLOODS:

Serum Testosterone:
6.61 ng/ml
(Reference Range 3.0 to 10.6ng/ml)

Prolactin:
43.5 ng/ml
(Reference Range 3 to 25ng/ml)

17 Beta Oeatradiol:
65.43 pg/ml
(Reference Range < 62pg/ml)

Albumin:
4.69 g/dL
(Reference Range 3.4 to 5 g/dl)

HOW ARE YOU FEELING ON YOUR CURRENT PROTOCOL INCLUDING SIDE EFFECTS:

I had 3 days during this protocol where I was shocked at the sense of well-being I experienced. For the first time ever it felt like I was on an anti-depressant that actually worked. It was amazing and if feeling this way more often or regularly is possible that would be amazing.
Sleep quality could still improve. I find myself still tossing and turning at night.
libido has improved some. I wake up with erections regularly now.
I have been on holiday since starting TRT but anxiety seems better. Probably too early to tell on this front.
I have been on a strict diet and workout regime but weight loss has been slow. I think I might be holding water.
My body weight is coming down although quite a bit slower than I would like given my effort and discipline (calorie counting at 2,000 calories, 3 days lifting and 4 days Jiu Jitsu). I was aiming for 1kg per week of weight loss and I am achieving only a fraction of that and within 2 weeks of starting treatment I gained 1.5kg despite eating well.
I have not experienced any major side effects. I think I might be holding some water.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO ACHIEVE:

I would like to try to regularly have the sense of well-being I experienced for 3 days during this protocol.
I would like to have better sleep quality.
I would like to improve my weight loss and possibly lose some of the water I might be retaining. I know you said in our initial consultation that my bf% should be reduced due to the implication on oestrogen which can hinder the results of my treatment. I am trying very hard. I am now 100.2kg at 6ft tall (1.83 meters).
I have not been getting any stronger in the gym despite my regular hard training. This would be a nice bonus, but isn’t as important to me as the other points above.

iambackjack · August 23, 2019, 2:27pm

Following bloods my new protocol is:
15mg / 0.12ml TC daily via subcutaneous injection

100iu / 0.1ml HCG daily via subcutaneous injection

6.25mg Exemestane every 4 days (1/4 tablet), take on empty stomach with water.

iambackjack · August 27, 2019, 8:21pm

Does anyone know what this amount of HCG likely produces in test (mg)?

I am trying to understand what this protocol likely translates to in terms of just test.

iambackjack · September 17, 2019, 10:08pm

My bloods are back and my doc is happy with my TRT regime. Next check in in Feb.

My protocol is:
15mg / 0.12ml TC daily via subcutaneous injection

100iu / 0.1ml HCG daily via subcutaneous injection

6.25mg Exemestane every 4 days (1/4 tablet), take on empty stomach with water.

Blood Results:

He wants to keep an eye on the prolactin but believes it is the result of my body being under stress from hard dieting (1800 calories per day) and hard exercise (lifting and BJJ).

dextermorgan · September 17, 2019, 10:45pm

Blood work looks ideal and if you are feeling good then congrats! My prolactin stays 50% higher than the top range and I don’t have any issues and feel fine so I don’t worry about it.