T Nation

Bloods on Test Prop Cycle

Hi all

Long time lurker, in the pharma and 5/3/1 categories mostly, although I follow a different routine now. 45 y o around 225 for 5ft11.Curious to read some of the posters’ input on the following :

T ook bloods on the 15th day of a 500/550mg a week test prop cycle. First time I inject test in 20 years, also using HGH at 4iu per day but have been doing so for 1 year, bar when traveling. Started using Aromasin 12.5mg eod on day 5 as it was obvious E2 and Prolactin went wild, but it is now obviously not enough, although side effects went down already. The more notable results are :

test : over 1600, it is a capped test
PRL: 18.32
E2 : 72

Thinking of doubling the Asin to 12.5 ed and add Prami at 25mg e3d but afraid it won’t be enough.

Surprised about the following :

HCT : 47% it actually went slightly down… that’s good news as the rules here only allow to give 400ml blood every 90 days, got 4 weeks more to wait.
WBC : 9.85 , slightly over normal range.
Lymphocytes, and Monocytes are both above the range, monocytes have been slightly high since doing blood tests regularly about 1 year ago but this time was worse, procalcitonin is also just above the normal range:

WBC : 9.85

LYnumber : 3.44
MO% : 11

MO number : 1.08 (the range is 0.10 to 0.60)

A bigger surprise even are liver enzymes results, they had been in the lower half of the normal range but while only test prop has been added (along Pycnogenol and gingko biloba supplementation), they are now a bit above range. I thought Test Prop wouldn’t impact them :

ALT : 54

AST : 47.9 Both values were at 24 in December

GGT : 15.1

I was out of Liv 2 and replaced it until today with another liver protection supplement but doubt it changed much if anything.

Any feedback will be welcome :

Does doubling Asin and add prami sounds like a good idea ?
Shall I start to worry about Monocytes ?
Wtf is going on with liver ? I was planning to start cruising around 150/170mg test prop or the equivalent in test undecanoate, both available otc here, after this cycle before getting hopefully to doctor prescribed TRT when moving to Spain this summer, but don’t want to hammer my liver either.

Thanks in advance and good lifting!

Are you having any high e2 side effects? Forget the numbers for a minute and focus on how you feel. E2 being high in the absence of high test is obviously bad, but if you’re at 72 and your test is 1,600+ then you could still be within the right range for the test:e2 ratio.

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Not knowing your real TT number kind of sucks. If you follow the 15-25% rule.
An E2 of 72 could be low for this cycle.
Even short time sensitive nipples does not mean you have a high E2 problem.
Do you get sad easier? More emotional? If not carry on.

Even though Testosterone Propionate is the shortest-estered testosterone @ 4.5 days 15days is kind of early for a blood test. Why so soon?

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Thanks both for your replies.
I need to take more time reading on the proper E2/test ratio during cycle, a quick google search didn’t bring much, will have a closer look tonight.
Fwiw by day 5 when I decided to start Aromasin (was waiting to be sure Test was gtg), I had blown up 10lbs, heart rate at rocketed to mid 90s from 60/70, Blood pressure had climbed into unhealthy territories, and morning wood which was strong after 2 days on cycle had become a memory- all erections had become complicated.
It all calmed down after staring Asin at 12.5 eod although the numbers are still higher than normal.
I’m always emotional and short tempered,and Prl is near the top of the range when taking nothing so it is hard to judge on the mood alone. No itching tits, but there is not much gland left there, if any, as my first blast 20 years back was a good instance of what not to do, and was followed by gyno and years later gyno surgery. Also have Nolva on hand btw.

Would you have input on the other data ? Does that make sense ALT and AST went from 24 to 54 and 49 respectively because of test injections ? This really came as a surprise , and is disturbing if it stays high while cruising/going on TRT

Cholesterol values came Ok btw, about the same as before the blast, triglycerides actually went down below 100.
Anyway upon getting the results I upped the Asin to 12.5mg ed and started prami at 25mg eod or e3d, not decided yet, today is day 3 after the blood results. First time I use prami and curious to see if it helps to sex drive and gets me quieter (i’m not in a bad mood the all time, just short tempered and more emotionnal than one wished).
But if more info comes against that process i will probably reconsider.

Thanks again, also for all further input, and good lifting !

I’ll try a couple of these question just remember this is just my opinion I am not a doc and I don’t try to play one on the internet.
Your liver is not happy. As I understand it having a high ALT way worse than AST. Do you have any problems with alcohol? Be honest. If not maybe you should look into Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease ( NAFLD ). Since you are taking HGH these liver numbers could be normal sorry I just don’t know. My only experience with HGH is thru peptides. I take Sermorelin and Ipamorelin to boost my own GH production.
You do know when taking HGH your natural production has been shutdown. Are you not worried getting it restarted after taking for a year?

Googling E2 vs TT when cycling will not have many hits. I had to pay a pro card holder who now offers advice for a price. Hea that rhymes haha. Basicly you divide your E2 sen into your TT sen Labcorp offer a sen TT test now with no upper limit. You want the answer to be between 15-25
example 1899TT/125E2= 15.2 good to go----------1899/150=12.6 time to take your AI. you are welcome.

BlastTT
Jan-2019-Mini-Blast02
In my case above I had to start taking my AI. I believe a had taken three .125mg anastrozoles over a two week period then for other reasons I had to abort this blast.

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Lets just guess at your TT. I was taking 330mg/wk and got 1866 you took 500 so lets say TT2000
((( It just a guess don’t nobody freak out ))) we are just messing around here.
So 2000TT/72E2=27.77
That is too high. Reduce your AI.

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Interesting to see your liver values, I remember a few years ago, BBB a very knowledgeable member here actually said liver values will be increased on injectable gear also not just while taking 17-aa orals. I wonder why.

SB

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Because they still pass through the liver once.

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I was hoping you would reply, forgot to tag you. So through the first pass, it will still tax the liver?

SB

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Thanks all for chiming in.

It looks indeed injections affected the liver values, there are many blood tests online of people on cycle, but not that many of those take only testosterone, will try and check a few of those. Fwiw I don’t drink and in 2018 not only did GH, but also Clomid and/or HCG to increase test levels for most of the year and spent a couple of months on tramadol and often NSAIDS to deal with a bad sciatica. Can’t remember ALT n or AST going over 30. They were @24 in December 2018.

As white blood cells and monocytes are also high, there might be something more, I’ll be happier in Spain where medical advice should be easier to get.

About GH shut down, from what I read a while ago it is not an issue, some people prefer to cycle off for a while every 6 months or so but that doesn’t seem to be a must. One of my kids is just starting Growth Hormone treatment, we saw doctors in Hong Kong and China who both put him on GH (China is more convenient for us, but I trust more the HK doctor’s opinion, hence the double check), none of those doctors mentioned the need to cycle off, and they definitely don’t want kids and teens with short stature, but without GH deficiency, to come end up without natural production.

Thanks for the input on E2/test ratio, I’d be worried with E2 levels between 450 and 750 for TT @ 3000, water retention is a serious issue, that increases heart rate and blood pressure to dangerous levels, and if it is accompanied by increased prolactin, soft dick joins the party, afaik but also ime. Yet as mentioned above I’m far from an experience juicehead, and still looking into this issue, all extra input will be welcome.

Depends on how much you use, what you use etc (some compounds in their non C-17AA form display higher levels of resistance to hepatic breakdown (tren for example), think how toxic methyltrenbolone is compared to methyltestosterome.

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