Blood Work - Cy, Others?

Diet and Nutrition
1

Ok, for curiosity’s sake, I had a CMP done the other day. Everything looked good, except for my prolactin levels . They are SKY HIGH. As in, twice the high-normal level. I was wondering if anyone could give any insights as to why this might be, what I can do about it ( Bromocriptine?) and other general info. I will try to post as many details as I can, and if anyone needs anymore, feel free to ask.

Age: 21
Height: 6’0"
Weight: approxamately 220
Years Training: About 5
Diet : I eat according to the Anabolic Diet, mostly hypocaloric now, and have been eating this way for about 6 months. Meaning, every 6 days or so I carb up, and the other days I stay under 30 grams of carbs a day, getting 6 grams of EPA/DHA per day, and lots of olive oil and saturated fat and protein.

Date Test was Taken: December 26th. I was not completely fasted, as I had a huge carb meal of Christmas goodies around 2:30 AM I guess. Blood was taken around 11:45 or 12:00. Shoulda been longer. Christmas day, the day before I was tested, consisted of my carb up day and the usual ton of carbs ingested.

Supplements: I have been on the new TRIBEX for about a week when the test was taken, and was on either RED KAT, old TRIBEX + RED KAT, M, or something similar for about 8 weeks, ever since I finished about an 8 week 4-AD-EC cycle. HOT-ROX, both maximum strength and normal, have been used on and off through the time period of being on the Anabolic Diet. I take ZMA at night, and take creatine. This carb up I took probably 20 grams or more, using all kinds of dumb carb filled stuff just because I could.

Pharmaceuticals: Due to thinning hair on my crown, I have been using Propecia for 8 months.

Ok, that is about it I suppose. Now for the levels, I will include the most important ones I guess, and if anyone has any questions about others, I will provide them, provided they were tested. One thing to note, my estradiol was not taken, I don’t know if they don’t test for it where I had it done, or if I shoulda asked. Just forgot. I don’t think they test for Free Test either, though I could be wrong. Mine wasn’t tested, unfortunately.

Item My Level Normal Range

CREm 1.2 mg/dL 0.6-1.2
GLUCm 95 mg/dL 65-110
CHOL 152 mg/dL <200 optimal
TG 85mg/dL <150
HDLD 77.0 mg/dL >60 optimal
CK 261 IU/L 22-186
MG 2.21 mg/dL 1.6-2.6

CKMB 2.2 ng/mL 0-5.0
FT4 1.34 ng/dL 0.69-1.80
HCG <2.0
MYO 40.46 ng/mL
PSA 0.25 ng/mL
T4 5.6 ug/dL
TSH 1.92 uIU/mL 0.35-5.50

CEA 1.20ng/mL
FOLB 82.3 ng/mL
FSH 3.71 mIU/mL
LH 4.35 mIU/mL
PRL 44.90 ng/mL NORMAL = 10-20 ???
TES 809.73 ng/dL

Sorry for the long post, and congratulations if you’ve made it this far. If anyone has any comments, questions, etc, thanks in advance. I plan on taking a longer fasted test again tomorrow, to verify my levels are this high. I know one of the side effects of elevated prolactin is low sex drive. I wouldn’t say mine is low, sometimes it seems rather crazy, but its not nearly as wide-eyed frenzied as it used to be. I could just be dellusional, I don’t know, but it seems like something is slightly amiss. Any insight is appreciated.

-Damage

2

Hi NewDamage,

I’m not a physician and am not trained in diagnosis. However, a possible cause for the elevated prolactin could be a pituitary tumor. Have you discussed these results with your physician?

I’m surprised that estradiol wasn’t measured. It too may be elevated.

Have you noticed any changes with your breasts/pecs?

The finasteride you’re taking may cause an elevation of estradiol in some individuals (consequently those that typically suffer from gynecomastia when using the drug). Other than that, the elevated prolactin isn’t something that has been demonstrated in clinical trials with the drug, however, I did find one case report of a man who was suffering from gynecomastia and elevated prolactin while using finasteride.

Interestingly enough, the Alpha Male and M, which contain vitex, should have caused a decrease in prolactin so this is pretty interesting.

In any event, I’d discuss these findings with your physician. Ruling out a pituitary tumor would then allow you to focus on slowly eliminating one drug or supplement at a time to see what may be causing such a result. I personally would consider eliminating the finasteride first (after ruling out a tumor) and then having another blood draw and so on.

Hope that helps some.

[quote]NewDamage wrote:
Ok, for curiosity’s sake, I had a CMP done the other day. Everything looked good, except for my prolactin levels . They are SKY HIGH. As in, twice the high-normal level. I was wondering if anyone could give any insights as to why this might be, what I can do about it ( Bromocriptine?) and other general info. I will try to post as many details as I can, and if anyone needs anymore, feel free to ask.

Age: 21
Height: 6’0"
Weight: approxamately 220
Years Training: About 5
Diet : I eat according to the Anabolic Diet, mostly hypocaloric now, and have

been eating this way for about 6 months. Meaning, every 6 days or so I carb up, and the other days I stay under 30 grams of carbs a day, getting 6 grams of EPA/DHA per day, and lots of olive oil and saturated fat and protein.

Date Test was Taken: December 26th. I was not completely fasted, as I had a huge carb meal of Christmas goodies around 2:30 AM I guess. Blood was taken around 11:45 or 12:00. Shoulda been longer. Christmas day, the day before I was tested, consisted of my carb up day and the usual ton of carbs ingested.

Supplements: I have been on the new TRIBEX for about a week when the test was taken, and was on either RED KAT, old TRIBEX + RED KAT, M, or something similar for about 8 weeks, ever since I finished about an 8 week 4-AD-EC cycle. HOT-ROX, both maximum strength and normal, have been used on and off through the time period of being on the Anabolic Diet. I take ZMA at night, and take creatine. This carb up I took probably 20 grams or more, using all kinds of dumb carb filled stuff just because I could.

Pharmaceuticals: Due to thinning hair on my crown, I have been using Propecia for 8 months.

Ok, that is about it I suppose. Now for the levels, I will include the most important ones I guess, and if anyone has any questions about others, I will provide them, provided they were tested. One thing to note, my estradiol was not taken, I don’t know if they don’t test for it where I had it done, or if I shoulda asked. Just forgot. I don’t think they test for Free Test either, though I could be wrong. Mine wasn’t tested, unfortunately.

Item My Level Normal Range

CREm 1.2 mg/dL 0.6-1.2
GLUCm 95 mg/dL 65-110
CHOL 152 mg/dL <200 optimal
TG 85mg/dL <150
HDLD 77.0 mg/dL >60 optimal
CK 261 IU/L 22-186
MG 2.21 mg/dL 1.6-2.6

CKMB 2.2 ng/mL 0-5.0
FT4 1.34 ng/dL 0.69-1.80
HCG <2.0
MYO 40.46 ng/mL
PSA 0.25 ng/mL
T4 5.6 ug/dL
TSH 1.92 uIU/mL 0.35-5.50

CEA 1.20ng/mL
FOLB 82.3 ng/mL
FSH 3.71 mIU/mL
LH 4.35 mIU/mL
PRL 44.90 ng/mL NORMAL = 10-20 ???
TES 809.73 ng/dL

Sorry for the long post, and congratulations if you’ve made it this far. If anyone has any comments, questions, etc, thanks in advance. I plan on taking a longer fasted test again tomorrow, to verify my levels are this high. I know one of the side effects of elevated prolactin is low sex drive. I wouldn’t say mine is low, sometimes it seems rather crazy, but its not nearly as wide-eyed frenzied as it used to be. I could just be dellusional, I don’t know, but it seems like something is slightly amiss. Any insight is appreciated.

-Damage
[/quote]

3

[quote]Cy Willson wrote:
Hi NewDamage,

I’m not a physician and am not trained in diagnosis. However, a possible cause for the elevated prolactin could be a pituitary tumor. Have you discussed these results with your physician?

I’m surprised that estradiol wasn’t measured. It too may be elevated.

Have you noticed any changes with your breasts/pecs?

The finasteride you’re taking may cause an elevation of estradiol in some individuals (consequently those that typically suffer from gynecomastia when using the drug). Other than that, the elevated prolactin isn’t something that has been demonstrated in clinical trials with the drug, however, I did find one case report of a man who was suffering from gynecomastia and elevated prolactin while using finasteride.

Interestingly enough, the Alpha Male and M, which contain vitex, should have caused a decrease in prolactin so this is pretty interesting.

In any event, I’d discuss these findings with your physician. Ruling out a pituitary tumor would then allow you to focus on slowly eliminating one drug or supplement at a time to see what may be causing such a result. I personally would consider eliminating the finasteride first (after ruling out a tumor) and then having another blood draw and so on.

Hope that helps some.

[/quote]

Hi Cy,

Thank you very much for your detailed response. As far as I can tell, ever since being on the finasteride, I have noticed no change in breast/pec sensitivity or size. Following a MAG-10 cycle a couple of years back, I did have a day where one of my nipples became itchy and sensitive; however, after two more days of M, this condition subsided. In addition, I was not taking finasteride at this time period.

I live with a roommate who is a lab tech, and I believe she told me they don’t test Free Test or Estradiol. However, I could be mistaken in that regard, and having forgotten to have her ask for those tests specifically, I may have just missed out.

I have considered the pituitary tumor a possibility, though I was hoping my levels were still rather low to be considered. However, being double the normal range, I still should pursue that avenue.

I plan on going in tomorrow to have another test done, and discussing these results with my physician. If possible I will definately get estradiol taken.

It is also worth mentioning that it has been a while since I was actually on Alpha Male. I have cycled between all of the variations of Biotest’s testosterone boosters due to cost and availability reasons, and I only was on M for one bottle. For a while before that it was strictly TRIBEX and RED KAT, or RED KAT alone, so perhaps I have no been taking vitex long enough to see a change. In addition, I did use TRIBEX and M for probably 6 months or more, a couple of years back, cycling off occasionally. Unfortunately, I never had any blood work done during that time period.

Anyways, I will get another test tomorrow, barring they don’t give me any run around about which values I need tested, and will report back with the results.

Regarding the pituitary tumor, is there any information, links, or offhand comments you have regarding these and treatments? If not, I guess I am off to google.

Once again, thanks a lot Cy, for all your info. Very helpful.

4

Ok, here’s an update for Cy and anyone else that is interrested. Seems to be some good news.

Date Entered : 12/29/05

Supplements : On 12/28, I dropped the new TRIBEX formula I was using during the time I had my first blood work done, and started on Alpha Male, HOT-ROX, and Methoxy-7. Note: This means I had been on Alpha Male one full day when I had the second blood test done.

Diet: This second test was taken in a fasted state, after a low carb anabolic diet day. The first test was taken about 11 hours after a massive carb up.

Everything else should be the same.

Here are the results:

Chemistry My Level Lab Normal Range
TSH 1.005 uIU/mL .350-5.50
Thyroxine 6.8ug/dL 4.5-12.0
T3 Uptake 39 % 24-39 %
Free Thyroxine Index 2.7 1.2-4.9
Triiodothyronine 125 ng/dL 85-205
Test, Serum 1068 ng/dL 241-827
Free Test(Direct) 23.0 pg/mL 9.3-26.5
Prolactin 8.2 ng/mL 2.1-17.7

PTH, Intact 69 pg/mL 12-65

So, this time, my prolactin came back normal, smack dab in the middle. Excellent.

Testosterone had risen over 250 ng/dL since the last test (previous was 810 ng/dL). Also, free test was tested this time, and I’m right up there on the high range. Yippee.

Testament to Alpha Male? Normal horomonal fluctuations?

In any case, I’m relieved the prolactin is down. However, they still, for whatever reason, did not test ESTRADIOL. I specifically asked for this, and I’m assuming the doctor just forgot to put it down.

My PTH is slightly elevated, so they are going to run another test and this time test estradiol as well. This doctor seemed a little more knowledgeable than the previous, and we had a good talk about things and the supplements I use, etc.

First questions out of his mouth were…“Are you using steroids?”

Haha. If I were I’d sure as hell try to get them to about 5000 or more!

Anyhow, I’ll report back with the third set of tests to see if everything is validated.

5

Hi NewDamage,

Wow! Yet again, another interesting profile.

I wish they would have checked estradiol when your prolactin levels were elevated, as it’s thought that estradiol may increase prolactin levels, especially when excess estradiol is formed due to high testosterone levels.

As for the normalization of prolactin levels as well as an increase in testosterone, it’s impossible to say for certain, but it’s obviously tempting to point towards the D2-agonistic properties of the vitex and Alpha Male in general. On the other hand, if you were using the TRIBEX formulation with the vitex in it during your first blood draw, then that makes me doubtful that the Alpha Male helped normalize the prolactin levels at least.

Your serum testosterone levels being in the supraphysiological range (according to that lab’s values) is certainly impressive.

Anyhow, I appreciate your posting of these values and am looking forward to your future post.

[quote]NewDamage wrote:
Ok, here’s an update for Cy and anyone else that is interrested. Seems to be some good news.

Date Entered : 12/29/05

Supplements : On 12/28, I dropped the new TRIBEX formula I was using during the time I had my first blood work done, and started on Alpha Male, HOT-ROX, and Methoxy-7. Note: This means I had been on Alpha Male one full day when I had the second blood test done.

Diet: This second test was taken in a fasted state, after a low carb anabolic diet day. The first test was taken about 11 hours after a massive carb up.

Everything else should be the same.

Here are the results:

Chemistry My Level Lab Normal Range
TSH 1.005 uIU/mL .350-5.50
Thyroxine 6.8ug/dL 4.5-12.0
T3 Uptake 39 % 24-39 %
Free Thyroxine Index 2.7 1.2-4.9
Triiodothyronine 125 ng/dL 85-205
Test, Serum 1068 ng/dL 241-827
Free Test(Direct) 23.0 pg/mL 9.3-26.5
Prolactin 8.2 ng/mL 2.1-17.7

PTH, Intact 69 pg/mL 12-65

So, this time, my prolactin came back normal, smack dab in the middle. Excellent.

Testosterone had risen over 250 ng/dL since the last test (previous was 810 ng/dL). Also, free test was tested this time, and I’m right up there on the high range. Yippee.

Testament to Alpha Male? Normal horomonal fluctuations?

In any case, I’m relieved the prolactin is down. However, they still, for whatever reason, did not test ESTRADIOL. I specifically asked for this, and I’m assuming the doctor just forgot to put it down.

My PTH is slightly elevated, so they are going to run another test and this time test estradiol as well. This doctor seemed a little more knowledgeable than the previous, and we had a good talk about things and the supplements I use, etc.

First questions out of his mouth were…“Are you using steroids?”

Haha. If I were I’d sure as hell try to get them to about 5000 or more!

Anyhow, I’ll report back with the third set of tests to see if everything is validated.[/quote]

6

Alrighty. Final results are in.

Date Collected : 1/05/06

My Level  Reference Value

LH 4.6 mIU/mL 1.5-9.3

FSH 4.3 mIU/mL 1.4-18.1

Estradiol 56 pg/mL 0-53

PTH, Intact 39 pg/mL 12-65

Calcium, Serum 10.1 mg/dL 8.5-10.6

As as might be expected, perhaps due to my use of finasteride and, perhaps high-normal testosterone levels, my estradiol is slightly elevated. I have not looked at any studies showing typical estrogen increases seen during finasteride administration, so I don’t know how I compare. I even think there are conflicting reports regarding whether or not an increase occurrs.

However, without having a baseline taken before I started taking finasteride, I have no real basis for comparison.

Although the lab flagged estradiol high, my doctor wrote everything as normal. I simply went and got a copy of the results, but I would like to discuss these with him even so. I can’t say I notice many side effects which might be attributed to elevated estrogen levels, other than perhaps a tendency to store more fat around my pecs and abdomen in a disproportionate amount in reference to the rest of my body, and perhaps slight water retention.

However, once again, I have noticed nothing difference since administration of finasteride, so regardless of what the levels may have been before and what they are now, I have not noticed any change.

That doesn’t mean I’m neccessarily comfortable with my levels of estrogen, however, due to all the various things estrogen can and may be involved in.

Cy, feel free to throw in whatever thoughts you may have about all of this.

7

NewDamage,

The elevated estradiol isn’t too big of a shock considering your last draw revealed a testosterone level well beyond the normal reference range for that laboratory.

Having said that, I don’t really have much to add. What would have been nice to obtain, would again have been estradiol levels back when your prolactin was elevated out of the normal range. Unfortunately, time travel isn’t yet a possibility.

[quote]NewDamage wrote:
Alrighty. Final results are in.

Date Collected : 1/05/06

My Level  Reference Value

LH 4.6 mIU/mL 1.5-9.3

FSH 4.3 mIU/mL 1.4-18.1

Estradiol 56 pg/mL 0-53

PTH, Intact 39 pg/mL 12-65

Calcium, Serum 10.1 mg/dL 8.5-10.6

As as might be expected, perhaps due to my use of finasteride and, perhaps high-normal testosterone levels, my estradiol is slightly elevated. I have not looked at any studies showing typical estrogen increases seen during finasteride administration, so I don’t know how I compare. I even think there are conflicting reports regarding whether or not an increase occurrs.

However, without having a baseline taken before I started taking finasteride, I have no real basis for comparison.

Although the lab flagged estradiol high, my doctor wrote everything as normal. I simply went and got a copy of the results, but I would like to discuss these with him even so. I can’t say I notice many side effects which might be attributed to elevated estrogen levels, other than perhaps a tendency to store more fat around my pecs and abdomen in a disproportionate amount in reference to the rest of my body, and perhaps slight water retention.

However, once again, I have noticed nothing difference since administration of finasteride, so regardless of what the levels may have been before and what they are now, I have not noticed any change.

That doesn’t mean I’m neccessarily comfortable with my levels of estrogen, however, due to all the various things estrogen can and may be involved in.

Cy, feel free to throw in whatever thoughts you may have about all of this.[/quote]