Blood Work, $10,000 Prize Money

Shawn, I’m going to do the nutra eval as soon as it gets here. Maybe we will learn something from that.

But just in case, I want to ask for opinions in case I decide to go back on TRT after we have turned over every stone…

I need opinions on T injections vs cream from a compounding pharmacy: What are the pros & cons of compounded cream? I used some once from a compounding pharmacy in town, they mixed the T with chrysin. It got my T level up to around 1,100 except that I was SUPER DIZZY, couldn’t think AT ALL and my blood pressure almost bottomed out. WTH was that about?

OTOH, I’ve been afraid to use T injections ever since that injection in 2007 when I nearly had a heart attack (bad batch, injected into a vein, allergic reaction to the oil, who knows what).

And when I used Testim, it took like 2 tubes just to get up to around 350 or 400. That stuff costs too much at 2 tubes a day.

Regardless, I just want my T to be at about 50% into the normal range. I’m not asking for much, I hope.

But if someone told me that their T has been low for years (like less than 15% of normal), and that they don’t look and feel like shit after sustained low T, I will just stop while I’m ahead!

Well, shit. I guess I will just be looking for “success” stories of people who have LOW T, yet don’t look and feel like crap. because I’m having second thoughts on taking any form of T after reading this:

Reasons why testosterone replacement can increase anxiety and impulsiveness

Testosterone (or one of its metabolites) can decrease the sensitivity of the adrenal glands, meaning that for a given amount of ACTH (a hormone excreted by the pituitary gland in the brain) less adrenal hormones are produced, including cortisol. If the person’s basal stress state can be characterised as one with elevated stress hormones (Norepinephrine, Epinephrine) with a blunted cortisol response, then testosterone supplementation can interfere with the body’s stress negative feedback mechanism and result in increased stress hormones, especially the inhibition of stress hormone release via the sympathetic nervous system. Cortisol is produced by the adrenal glands (as well as other stress hormones) in response to ACTH. The increase in cortisol is fed back to the brain where it reduces the stress response by reducing the production of ACTH and via the nerve sympathetic nervous system to the adrenal glands.

Testosterone replacement can blunt the cortisol response to ACTH. Without sufficient cortisol the ability of serotonin to inhibit glutamatergic activity in the lateral amygdala is greatly reduced. The amygdale is an area of the brain that is implicated in “flight or fight” stress response, in other words anxiety and panic attacks.

Some of the metabolites of testosterone (namely estradiol and estrone) can increase the binding of cortisol via cortosol-binding globulin, making it unavailable for use as free-cortisol. Again, this can interfere with the negative feedback mechanisms required to suppress the stress response.

Some of the metabolites of testosterone (namely estradiol via aromatisation of testosterone) can inhibit the deiodinase enzyme pathway in the central nervous system and peripheral organ (the liver), reducing the availability of T3 via the inhibition of the conversion of thyroid hormone T4 to T3. The reduction of active T3 can result in the down-regulation of the serotonin 5HT receptors in the brain, increasing the sensitivity of the body’s stress system.

One of the metabolites of testosterone (namely estradiol via aromatisation of testosterone) can increase glutamatergic activity in the brain. Too much activity and we perceive that as stress, anxiety and panic.

One of the metabolites of testosterone (namely estradiol via aromatisation of testosterone) modulates the serotonin 5HT system in a complex way. Initially it seems to up-regulate the 5HT system (good for lowering stress and anxiety), then a little later seems to down-regulate the 5HT system (bad for anxiety).

Men with more body fat are more likely to aromatise more testosterone to estrogen metabolites and experience the problems above. The aromatise enzyme is contained within fat cells.

Men with existing HPA abnormalities - blunted cortisol response to ACTH challenge, flat diurnal salivary cortisol profile, sub-clinical Addison’s disease, adrenal insufficiency, chronic fatigue syndrome or any sub-clinical hypocortisolism condition are more likely to respond to testosterone supplementation negatively.

Men with existing thyroid abnormalities â?? either clinical or sub-clinical hypothyroid or hyperthyroid are more likely to respond to testosterone supplementation negatively.

To address these issued a full workup is required in the following order:
Adrenal profile evaluation
Thyroid profile evaluation
Androgen profile evaluation
Growth hormone profile evaluation
Neurochemical profile evaluation

Each of these needs to be evaluated in the above order and treated in this order."

OOOK, but I’ve had extensive workups. All point to something “wrong”, but doctors can’t/won’t treat it. e.g. my last endo said I have reactive post pradinal hypoglycemia AND pseudopheochromocytoma. But didn’t offer a way to fix either.

mrlow - what site did you find that information? if was a post on another forum with the initial ATM? the writing seems familiar.

It was saved in notepad on my computer for awhile, not sure where I found it. When I tried to look for the source, I could only find it on forums.

We advocate that E2 management is an vital part of TRT.
We do discuss how hypothyroidism should be dealt with prior to TRT.
We discuss how adrenal/cortisol levels need to be dealt with prior to TRT.
If a man has declining T levels, his metabolism slows down, if status of thyroid and adrenals slow down as well, there is a state of harmony in this reduced metabolic state. TRT can restore normal metabolic demands, then you find that the body cannot support these demands with the other systems running slow.
There really is a lot of information there that is not new at all. We deal with these things here all of the time.

The paper is flawed by associating issues with testosterone replacement instead of association with youthful levels of testosterone.

Everything stated about estradiol also applies to females who have vastly higher levels. From the tone of the article it would seem that normal women would be dropping dead in there tracks. This all sounds like sensationalism.

The issue is T levels, not testosterone replacement. Young health males are subject to the same metabolites and processes and they are not regarded as been harmed by being healthy. We do see young males in non-ideal states; gyno, ache, mood/depression issues and other things. Because they are young, they are not treated. If you are old with the same issues from restoring T to youthful levels, that is suddenly a treatable side effect. An obvious lack of consistency. We do treat women with prevent a state of pregnancy with hormone intervention [wondering what that implies].

The article would seem to suggest that young males with some of those underlying medical issues should be taking drugs to lower their testosterone levels to avoid the results described.

Things need to be done right and a whole body approach is needed. Main stream medicine will send a man home with T-gel and nothing else. The companies selling T delivery systems do not want to raise the issues that create barriers to simple marketing.

The problems are not fundamental, but are mostly artifacts of medical practice and ignorance.

Thanks KSman. Your words put things into perspective. It’s just that I don’t know what “screwed me up”… perhaps it was the over-training (3 hours a day nonstop) or the high T levels (1300+), or the fact that my thyroid/adrenals were not adequately treated. Or all the above. But I tend to think that most of it was from overtraining.

I just got a Genovia Nutra Eval kit from Shawn, going to see what that tells us. If all lab tests say that I’m “healthy” except that my T levels are low, then I guess a little TRT shouldn’t kill me. If the anxiety comes back (as it did before, while on TRT), then my doctor wants me to take Lexapro. I’ve heard nasty stuff about lexapro. Anybody here take Lexapro or xanax??

[quote]mrlowt wrote:
Thanks KSman. Your words put things into perspective. It’s just that I don’t know what “screwed me up”… perhaps it was the over-training (3 hours a day nonstop) or the high T levels (1300+), or the fact that my thyroid/adrenals were not adequately treated. Or all the above. But I tend to think that most of it was from overtraining.

I just got a Genovia Nutra Eval kit from Shawn, going to see what that tells us. If all lab tests say that I’m “healthy” except that my T levels are low, then I guess a little TRT shouldn’t kill me. If the anxiety comes back (as it did before, while on TRT), then my doctor wants me to take Lexapro. I’ve heard nasty stuff about lexapro. Anybody here take Lexapro or xanax??[/quote]

Please read the directions and stop all supplements (the ones you can) for 4 days before blood draw which can only be shipped monday -thursday can not be shipped friday.

ok got it.

[quote]mrlowt wrote:
ok got it.[/quote]

make sure you know what to freeze and what not to…You can call genova to make sure.