T Nation

Blood Test Results, Etc., and Going Back on TRT?


#1

This is quite a long post, so thanks for anyone that takes time to read it. It also has some stuff from a previous post in it, however it took me a long time to get my bloods done and I wasnt getting any replies when I posted my bloods so I thought I would make a new post, thanks.

-age: 32
-height: 171cm
-waist 95cm
-weight 79KG
-describe body and facial hair: Cant grow a proper beard, patchy, light chest hair.
-describe where you carry fat: abdomen and lower back/glutes
-health conditions, symptoms [history]: Fatigue in general, a lot of fatigue after exercise, easy to store fat, hard to put on muscle. surgery for a twisted testicle
-Rx and OTC drugs: zinc, probiotics
-lab results with ranges- cant find right now, will find and add later.
-describe diet basically a paleo diet.
-describe training: resistance train when I can (fatigue/injuries), surf occasionally, again when I can.
-testes ache, ever, with a fever? Nope
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: I dont really get them and havent for a very long time (10 years??)

Okay first Ill start by saying, Ill do my best to give enough info and keep to the point and thanks for any advice anyone can give.

My Dr put me on TRT at the beginning of the year, I was put on due to the symptoms I had my test was low but not low enough to be considered for PBS in Australia (Im from Australia by the way).

I was put on 250mg Test-e, once every 2 weeks. After my first injection I felt great, I hadnt slept so well in a long time, I was able to get up out of bed so much easier, I was able to exercise without sleeping for a day and I was definitely interested in sex again.

After my second injection I started to gain a bit of wait around my waist, feeling bloated etc, Im guessing sides from E?

I had ups and downs, blood pressure increased slightly 146/85, usually 110-120/70, I still felt good training wise etc but wasnt as energetic waking up in the mornings.

I was due to go on holidays so after a discussion with the Dr he thought it best to stop for now and try again once I got back, so we had time to make sure everything was okay.

I stopped cold after about 7 weeks. My hormones appeared to come back to normal once I had gotten back from holidays.

In regards to weight, before starting TRT I was 69kg, while on TRT I went up to 74kg, this is while I was actively trying to lean down. I then went on holidays at that weight, got sick, once I came home my diet went to shit( compared to my normal diet) and I went up to 84kg, I found it very difficult to control my weight and to lose weight at this point, I am now back down to 79kg.

Hopefully that history makes sense.

Blood test results

Finally got my blood test results back, also I checked my temp in the morning, I ranged from 35.8deg C-36.3 deg C.

LH 2 (<9)
FSH 2 (<10)
-TT 17.7nmol (11-40nmol)
-FT 363 pmol (260-740)
-E2 56pmol (55-165)
-Prolactin 172 mIU/L (<500)

Shbg 38nmol (10.0-70.0)
-DHT
-PSA 0.92 (0.2-2.1)

TSH 1.0 (0.3-3.5)mlU/L

ft3 4.2 (2.6-6pmol)

Ft4 11.6 (9-19pmol)

Rt3 261pmol (140-540)

Here are my questions.

In Australia, from my experience doctors wont prescribe multiple smaller shots per week, they will stick to the 250mg every 2-3 weeks. They also wont prescribe an AI or SERM.

Before I make a decision, I am planning on dropping back down to about 74kg, so that my body fat is a lot less when I start.

I essentially have 3 options.

My GP, will prescribe Test-e 250mg every 2 weeks, will not prescribe an AI or SERM/hcg.
I know after reading the stickies in this forum, this is not ideal.

The injections are given in rediject pens, loaded with 250mg/1ml. I could transfer all of my rediject into a sterile 10ml vile, I would rather not do this as Im not sure how safe it will be regardless of how careful and sterile I try to be.

Another Dr that deals more with TRT, will give 250mg sustanon per week, with weekly injections, will prescribe a SERM if it is needed, no AI, and will prescribe hcg.
I have read sust250, is pretty bad to be on as levels are up and down, also due to the long ester, when coming off it stays in your system longer and makes HPTA/PCT harder.

The doctor recommends coming off once every 12 weeks for a period of time, but this is ultimately up to the patient.

This option is the most expensive, at $600/12 weeks.

I know someone that can supply me with Test-e, I cant guarantee the powder but I know and have seen the stuff work.
I can also access from what I am told is a reliable source for medications, Nolva, arimidex and hcg.

However, this is not through medical channels and I am not sure how I feel about this.

This is the only way I can give myself smaller more frequent injections and have the other medication to go along with it.

Im looking for advice on

is sust250 really that bad to be on as a once a week injection?

would any one here be comfortable getting what they need from non medical sources?

or, should I just not do TRT if I cant get it done through doctors properly?

Im not sure what to do.

Hopefully I have provided enough information.

I appreciate any help/advice I can get.


#2

All your doctors are complete idiots! Every 2-3 week injections don’t work and any doctor that believes it does is clueless, naturally your body produces testosterone multiply times throughout the day, it’s as far from natural injecting every 2-3 weeks as one can get. Taking a break every 12 weeks clearly comes from the bodybuilding community for those who wish to preserve their natural production, so in effect doctors want you to take a break every 12 weeks to preserve your suboptimal levels, absolutely ridiculous! It sounds like when you first went on TRT your doctor put you on too much test and very likely had your estrogen skyrocket causing you to feel bloated and emotional.

This is why large dosages of T every 2-3 weeks fails every time and if your doctors had any real experience administering TRT they would understand why it doesn’t work. I hear stories everyday similar to yours, guy starts TRT with a doctor who’s clueless and guy quits TRT because now he feels worse than before TRT. I was put on 200mg E3W in the beginning and it was horrible, my first doctor really could careless about my suffering as he never took anything seriously in his life.

Run don’t walk from these doctor!


#3

Unfortunately there is a lot of stigma surrounding trt in Australia still.

The every 2-3 week injections is “standard protocol” and doctors will and do get audited and questioned about trt prescriptions.

I think you’re right the 2-3 weeks is cause they don’t know a lot about it but also because they are given a lot of misinformation.

The 1 Dr that will prescribe sust250, will prescribe weekly injections. I believe they are ampules, so if I really wanted I could load 2 syringes and inject one straight away and the other one 3.5 days later.

I don’t know if I’m comfortable doing that, though.

There is even more stigma surrounding prescription of serms and AIs to men.


#4

Have you read the protocol for injections thread?

HPTA is going to be 100% shutdown no matter what TRT you do.

Body temps are low. Did we discuss your iodine intake?
Please double check the fT3 range that you posted.
fT3 may be low re mid-range
fT4 is below mid range.

DHEA-S is very low for you age and may be part of your low T, but you major problem is low LH/FSH and the cause is not prolactin. Other causes are discussed in the stickies.

Fat loss is majorly affected by thyroid.

Getting off of TRT every 12 weeks is a feeble attempt at protecting your fertility.


#5

Hi @kallel-kent there are a few guys here on TRT from Australia and I think majority of them are with Dr Adrian Zentner from WA. He will prescribe primotestone 250mg. You can take this home and inject with syringes purchased from the chemist. Even he said at the start do it every 2 weeks. But I said I’ll be doing it twice a week. He didn’t argue, I think he covers his arse by telling us to do it every 2 weeks. As KSMAN said sort out your body temps and get on a multivitamin with iodine and selenium. Get in iodized salt as well. I’ll leave the rest up the the more knowledgeable.


#6

Yep, Ive read every sticky, probably to the point of information overload, Ive even followed other posts where youve given advice

**Nope, but I read your post on thyroid and I have started supplementing with iodine and selenium. The fT3 range is correct from the lab I got my results done at. Ill have to go read the stickies again, off the top of my head I dont remember the other reasons for low LH/FSH. I think that was the Doctors idea behind that, he did say it was up to myself if I wanted to come off or not, but he did recommend it.

The doc said he doesnt see anything wrong with my thyroid values and going just off of them, he doesnt think that is what is affecting my weight loss attempts, I really dont know.**


#7

I finally convinced my Dr to prescribe me Test-E in a vial so I can select the dosage as a smaller more frequent injection. Only problem is now Im having a hard time getting a chemist to fulfill the script. I can only get it done at a custom compounding pharmacy and the one out of the two that do it said " we wont fill the script as a vial because that means you will be putting a needle through the rubber up to 12x and you will give yourself an infection and its against legislation. Then went on to say that if it was being sent to the Dr and being injected by the nurse, then its okay"

When I questioned the difference between giving the injection myself or the nurse giving it with the same amount of punctures, he couldnt answer.

How are you injecting 2x week from one rediject pin? Are you putting it in a vial then taking from there?

Is that Dr willing to prescribe AI, hcg or Nolva?

Thanks


#8

Most everyone here is using 10ml testosterone vials and we do not see infections. That is 40 doses per vial in many cases.

Testosterone in vials is 0.9% benzyl alcohol that prevents bacterial growth inside the vial. You can clean vial tops s with alcohol for each dose. There is no water to support bacteria.

http://www.pbs.gov.au/medicine/item/2114G

Found it: https://www.nhmrc.gov.au/book/australian-guidelines-prevention-and-control-infection-healthcare-2010/b4-1-2-appropriate-use-d

Multi-dose vials

The Australian Drug Evaluation Committee (ADEC) has advised that injectable products packaged in multi-dose vials should not be used except where products such as insulin are intended solely for the exclusive use of an individual patient (ADEC 2005). In these particular cases, specific protocols should be in place to ensure the products are used for those individuals only, and there is adherence to practices that prevent contamination of injection equipment and medication.

Summary: Multi dose vials should not be used except where they are intended solely for the exclusive use of an individual patient (e.g. insulin)


#9

image

Hi this is the stuff the Doc I go to prescribes. I take off the grey cap and back fill a insulin syringe. I get about 6 doss from the 1 vial. He does prescribe and AI and also HCG. He asked “am I worried about ball shrinkage?” I said not really then he said no need for HCG.


#10

I tried explaining that to him but he just refused and said they won’t do it.


#11

Flash74,

So you’re on less than 100mg a week?

Are you in his state to see him face to face?

Never had any issues backloading the insulin syringes lile that?

The nurse at my surgery said Don’t do it as once I remove the cap on the rediject it’s no longer sealed/sterile.

I dunno how true that is.

So he prescribed you an ai as well?


#12

Hi Yeah I must be pretty sensitive to T, on about 75mg a week. I’ve only seen him once. I never told him how I was doing it. But from my reading on here if your careful, there is no issue. I’ve been doing it since April. Yes I’m on anastrazole.


#13

I finally got a chemist that will do my prescription, not cheap though. I have ordered some sterile vials, I think I will just go back on primoteston, and do what you are doing.

Did you have any issues with E or did you go on anastrazole just as a precaution at the start?


#14

Got my DHT results back today 0.7nmol/L (0.4-2.5)


#15

Originally my T went to 42(range 11-40) on 0.5ml(125mg) per week, so E was very high as well. But I need an AI to get my E to around 80 which is mark KSMAN said to aim for.


#16

Interesting.

Thanks for the info.

You seem to be fairly sensitive to the injections, at least compared to myself.