T Nation

Blood Results- T Levels?'s


I turned 23 in August and just got my results...

My total- 479
Free- 56.1

Never had my levels checked before so that's why I had the test done. I also asked for an estrogen test but they didn't take enough blood for it. The new nurse pricked me 6 or 7 times and couldn't get any blood, I think she was incredibly incompetent.

So my question is, are these levels about normal? Trying to google it is worthless as the "normal" levels range from 200-1,200. What the fuck kind of range is that?

Anyway, anyone have any opinions on my levels? Are they ok for my age or are they low? Bushido?


Come on, somebody


That's low-normal for a guy your age. I'm 53 and 280 to 950 ng/dl is normal for me.

Try some Alpha Male.


Speaking strictly averages, for someone your age the test results are marginal. That said, the "averages" are completely worthless for most people in real life. Generally speaking "most" guys your age would be 800-1200 T, but once again you are in the middle average of "normal" and probably won't get a doctor to prescribe HRT unless you get really lucky. Even at 479, you still have plenty of potential to build muscle and stay in good shape.

Google "ADAM Questionaire" to see if you have any related symptoms, then go see an Endocrinologist and complain about the symptoms you are having. Do you drink regularly or do any recreational drugs, as that kind of behavior will also lower your Test levels. You may find a doctor that realizes at your age you could use HRT, just be prepared to have to inject yourself for all the rest of your days.

HRT is a blessing for those of us that qualify, as it really does improve the quality of life. Instead of being almost 50 and just looking at women as pretty, you get to not only have the thoughts of a nineteen year old, but the ability to perform like one too. I hope this helps.


No recreational drugs, used some years ago but never got addicted or heavy into anything.

Don't drink very often. I'll drink about once a month, maybe, maybe twice. Even then, it's usually only a few beers. My long nights of vodka and partying are far behind me.

I also keep my fat intake at a good percentage to try and keep my T levels up.

Perhaps I'll speak to an endocrinologist as my answers to the ADAM test don't bode well for me. I felt that 479 seemed to be on the low end, I was hoping for a higher result. My doctor doesn't seem to be concerned as he didn't speak to me about the numbers, which means he doesn't consider them out of the ordinary but I'm not satisfied with them.

I need to get some Alpha Male, that's for sure.


Check out the "Your Doctor, Your Dealer" article if you are seriously interested in HRT. The biggest concern is getting your insurance company to cover the cost of treatment, which typically requires two morning blood draws below the "normal" range. The article can help you figure out how to push the envelope a bit if you're already on the edge.

You aren't TOO low, but at your age I know how it feels to have low T, even below average T. You can function, just not as well as you'd like. My original T tested at 300 a couple times and no dice on getting HRT (262 was the cutoff).

This was with a super-clean lifestyle and full recovery from working out. In short, add in a bit of alcohol, caffeine, overtraining, sleep deprivation, and lack of calories (closer to the average lifestyle than the other extreme I was currently living) and you'll have rock-bottom T levels.

I did it twice to get the HRT I felt was necessary, which at 300 for my age I don't think anyone would say otherwise. I tested twice at like 120 and 80, then I got my prescription.

I would suggest that people don't use this method unless they are borderline low, especially for their age, as HRT is somewhat of a pain in the ass and is a lifelong treatment. You can't just be on HRT for five years or so and then get tired of doing it when you're 25, 30, whatever. At that point you'll likely be stuck on it whether you want it or not. Again, don't fuck around with it if you honestly don't need it.


So Schwarzenegger, based on my age and levels, would you recommend I try getting HRT prescribed?

Do you think I'm borderline low for my age?

I wouldn't mind being on HRT for the rest of my life.

My sex drive is fine, but a lot of the time I feel lethargic and mildly depressed, and it's very hard for me to put on muscle.


If you go on HRT, can you still have kids? Or does this, too, become out of the question?


TRT induced HPTA shutdown can threaten fertility. But that is not a problem for those who use HCG to maintain functional testes.


A lot depends on your race --- TRT kills about 95% of the 'little guys' in Asians, and about 70% in Caucasians. It will knock you down a lot. You can do HCG to stay functional.

I did Schwarzenegger's method when I was borderline, to get Cyp. But as he says, its a big committment.

To the OP: you can try homebrews. Schwarzenegger and Bushido can tell you a lot more there, though powders are getting harder to get out of China (2008 Olys have everything f'd up.)


Your doctor's hands are tied. He can't legally treat you with those levels. He may not think that those levels are right for you. Even with symptoms, some doc's will only treat lab results,


Aren't homebrews a bad idea, at least for a novice like me, considering the need for strict sterility? ... But yeah, I've heard a lot of sources and home brew men are having problems right now with the China situation.


If you follow Schwarz'ies protocol for lowering your T levels, and throw in a bunch of licorice root too, you can probably tank your numbers enough to get on HRT. For the rest of your life. There are no "cycles" on doctor prescribed HRT. That said, finding a open minded HRT doctor that will prescribe HCG too may take more research.

The HCG will keep the testes and tadpoles happy, while the Test will take away the moodiness and unpredictable depression, and make you feel like a new man.
Home brew is a safe and inexpensive alternative if you can't get a doctor to help you with the necessary prescriptions. Proper filtering removes the bugs the alcohol doesn't kill.

If you have any specific questions, PM me.


The longer you stay on the T-lowering protocol the more dramatic of an effect it will have. 48 solid hours of zero food, alcohol, caffeine, twice per day training, and zero sleep will bottom out your T levels, especially given the 400-range you're currently in. For "normal" people I would say a week of these activities.

I would suggest telling your primary doc that your sex drive has sucked, and that you don't get fully hard a lot of the time, even while masturbating. You have mild depression most of the time, poor concentration, etc. Ask to see an endocrinologist about possible T levels or thyroid. Regardless of if the primary doc retests you first (which will likely happen) or sends you to an endo for testing, do the protocol before any appointments you plan to be tested at so that your T levels suck.

HRT will decrease sperm mobility and number, making it harder conceive, but it can happen. My doc was concerned with this being an issue for me, but I have had a vasectomy so it didn't matter. Tell him that if you plan on having kids that you'll try some stuff to increase sperm mobility, you may stop the HRT for a time to see if that works (last resort), or if everything fails that you'll just not have kids.

Say that you'd rather have a lifetime full of feeling "normal" than sacrificing that just to have kids. You should come first, kids second. It also might not hurt to say that you didn't plan on having kids anyway.

As far as homebrewing, it's very easy to create a sterile end-product. Nothing is sterile until the final filtering anyway. It's not rocket science. It's also a lot cheaper than the pharmacy charges, which was the reason I began homebrewing. I started to do cycles of stuff since I already figured I was f-ed up, but that's another story.

It sounds like you've got plenty of support here as far as how to go about doing stuff. I would also say that at your age, with those levels, and if you honestly thing you are lacking something in your life, that HRT may be beneficial. You can always decide to stop after a couple months with no damage if you feel it's not what you thought it was.

One last thing, the endo will prescribe gels at first. Take them and go with it for a month until you check back in with him. Tell him that the gels are a pain in the ass and that they smell, and that since you sweat a lot and are active that they never fully dry and stay sort of slick.

You also have to use the gels as the doc will test your levels to determine dosing. Don't ask for injections right off as most endos will be a bit weary, especially at your age. You just have to play your cards right. Finally say that you want to try the injections as you know someone (friend's dad or whatever) who does injections and said that he thought it was much more convenient and less hassle.

They'll likely prescribe something like every other week injections of test E or C. If you can, ask if you can self-administer at home so you don't have to run back to the doc office all the time and pay the copay to see the doc, and it'll be more convenient for traveling or whatever. A nurse will show you how to do it and you're good to go.

I would then suggest doing every week injections, and also ordering some 25g needles on your own, as they'll prescribe something like 20g, which is just ridiculous.

Take the above info and do what you need to get injections. I would suggest not getting the gels for the above reasons. Make up reasons not to try the patch or buccal tabs, unless that's something you wish to try. Either way you won't get enough T for a cycle, but you're dong it for medical purposes anyway.

The patch and buccal tabs work well, but the shots will honestly give you the most bang for you buck. I would shoot for getting 100mg/wk prescribed, or 200mg EOW. I first started at 200mg/month... let me tell you that I felt like shit for a while. It'll be a roller coaster until you get everything worked out.

Take care.


Major props to Schwarzenegger for a very thoughtful and insightful post!

A true T-Nation brother...


Here's my dilemma.

I've had the same primary doc for probably 20 years, ever since I was about 2 or 3. I feel comfortable talking to him and all, but here's the problem...

If I go in telling him I can't get hard, have mild depression, and poor concentration, then I'm worried he's just going to prescribe me Welbutrin which is an anti depressant that also helps with erectile disfunction. He's prescribed it to me before for the "depression" I have. I tried it for a couple months too though so maybe I could tell him it didn't help?

I'm wondering if I should go directly look for an endocrinologist myself, or if I should just tell my primary doc straight up that I'm not satisfied with my T and I'm really wanting HRT and of my plans for manipulating my T levels to get it? Like I said, I feel comfortable talking to him considering how long he's been my doc, but I don't know if being completely honest is the best idea.

Any suggestions?

With a prescription is it legal to homebrew? I've heard being busted with powder is worse than being busted with some vials or amps.

So, if I were prescribed gels at first and they test T at first to determine dosing, I'd do the T manipulation then as well correct? After a month of the gel, would my T levels be tested again when I inquire about injections?

Thanks for all your help Schwarzenegger, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Great T member right here


Upping and hoping for a little more help, again I appreciate it!