Hey guys. Starting week 11 of first cycle which is:
1-12 Test E 250mg Mon/Thurs 8-12 Dbol 37.5mg ED 1-12 Aromasin 6.25mg ED
Cruise at 250mg Test E E10D.
I can give stats but would prefer to remain as anonymous as possible. Late 20s, I was 250.0 lbs exactly this morning fwiw, body fat 20-25% actual (15% internet). Total about 1350 lbs (1550 internet). I've gained 60 lbs on my bench and almost 100 lbs on my squat. Weight is up 27 lbs.
I plan to blast and cruise (cycle and bridge if you insist) for life. I'm wondering how would you set things up to maintain body fat between 10-15% while adding muscle/strength? Compounds are any anabolic, any fat burner including DNP, hGH possible but no insulin. Non-standard training/diet discussion also welcome (no shit it must be dialed in). I saw walkway advise blast 12 weeks and bulk, then cruise 6 weeks and run dnp + clen etc which is what I'm thinking now. What do you think?
i'd suggest running aromasin a tad longer than your cycle, as you could still get some estrogen conversion until your test e ester clears out.... as far as using E10D, i would not use that. there is some bad info floating around the Interwebz about steroid half-lives, and test e/cyp half life is 4.5 days.... the total active live is 9-10 days. if you did this you would have a horrible roller coasting ride of hormones....
( Google: Pharmacology of testosterone preparations H.M. Behre, C. Wang, D.J. Handelsman and E. Nieschlag if you don't believe me, and read the data there....)
anyway, as far as the cruise, i personally don't recommend that, unless you plan on staying "on" forever....
i'm also curious to Walkaway's recommendation about DNP and clen, as he's mentioned that before, and i never caught the explanation as to why.....
thanks man. i've lifted off and on for over 10 years so to make more gains in 10 weeks than in the past 4 years is pretty awesome lol. everyone wants to act like it's their hard work and discipline but really it's mostly the drugs. gotta have both obviously but shit a beginner dose of test gives amazing gains.
i need to get bloods done to get e levels in check. i started with .5mg adex ed and got symptoms of low e. it was pill not tab so i didn't take any ai until the aromasin arrived, and decided not to take any because no signs of low or high e for weeks, but started taking it when i started with the dbol.
i googled the link and saw a badass book i might actually buy even though it's $150 lol but nothing about ester half lives.. based on the enanthate ester i thought it should be about 10 days, regardless of what it's attached to. how would you run a cruise?
i do plan on staying on forever. in fact, i don't think anyone should touch steroids unless they plan on being on for life. if you can't make that commitment then you have no business cycling in the first place imho.
yeah the whole "bulk during blast cut during cruise" gets a lot of hate but makes sense to me. i was thinking about 500 calorie surplus or deficit according to phase. ordering some dnp crystal today gonna low dose it for 6 weeks and run standard ancillaries. clen and ephedrine alternating is to mobilize fat and help calories come from fat instead of muscle i believe, since you get both alpha and beta receptors active. if walkway would elaborate on protocol that would be awesome.
well, keep digging on the web, because i downloaded that book for free, legally. well, i thought so...
anyway, chaper 14 is the one that discussing the pharokinetics of various test esters... the half life of test e/cyp is 4.5 days, so shooting that 1-3 times a week makes sense. most guys in TRT do it once a week; most guys on cycle do it 2-3 times a week.
bill_doggs yahoo email i'll be your best friend if you can send it (lol throwback to elementary school). if not i'll look for it again online. pinning .5ml e5d seems like a pain but it'll be worth it. even then, that's half of it gone by then, so not even that stable.
Ok found the book after some more digging. Looks really interesting. Indeed the half life is 4.5 days, but 250mg of test e resulted in at least natural levels for up to 3 weeks after injection.
It's just a question of how often to inject. There's nothing sacred about the half-life timeframe. More often = more stable, but that has to be weighed against the hassle. I'm going to try e10d and see how I feel. My levels will always be above natural, but will of course fluctuate a lot (by more than a factor of 4 actually). Even injecting e5d will mean more than a factor of 2, so anyone could argue eod or ed or hell every 12 hours is best to make levels as stable as possible.
I'm still working on my complete protocol but will post it when finished. Easier that way with a starting point for discussion.
hmm... i don't know which figure you're looking at, but pretty much everything i saw had it returning close to baseline at 10 days... there might be very little remaining beyond that, but i doubt so much it really matters here.
from page 418:
"Single-dose pharmacokinetics of testosteroneenanthate after intramuscular administration of 250 mg testosterone enanthate to seven hypogonadal patients and the best-fitted pharmacokinetic profile are shown in Fig. 14.6 (Nieschlag et al. 1976).
Maximal testosterone levels in the supraphysiological range were seen shortly after injection (39.4 nmol/l, tmax = 10 h). Testosterone levels below the normal range were observed following day 12 after injection. The calculated values were 9911 nmol â?? h/l for AUC, 8.5 d for MRT and 4.5 d for terminal half-life (Table 14.2)."
if you were looking at using this solely as actual "replacement,", then you could use e10d, but you will have your test start low, go up, and then come back down to baseline. even the TRT guys generally don't do that, most shoot cyp weekly (albeit at 100 mg).
as far as doing a "cruise," you will feel better and have less estrogen fluctuations is you use a lower dose and shoot more frequently (weekly, in this case).
for an actual cycle, if you shoot this way, you will have a more limited period in which you will have supraphysiological levels to actually gain benefit from. you would prolly only be making gains half the time, instead of all the time. so in this case, i would go 2x week minimum, and more frequently with a higher dose.
let me know if this doesn't make sense, and i'll try to clarify...
well 250 would be 125 after 4.5 days, 62.5 after 9 days, which is about a replacement dosage. but yeah you're right, i looked at it wrong.
i have some sust on hand if i need to travel for a few weeks or something (inject like 1000mg for 4 weeks), but it's UGL and i doubt they have all the various esters in there in the proper amounts. you convinced me, i'm gonna do 125mg Mon Thurs for cruises but can always do 250mg ew if i need to skip a day. it's easier than e5d because the day changes every week, and it gives more stable levels anyway.
that all makes sense, i was just trying to be lazy.
so that's the test part of the cruise at least. still researching the rest. anyone else's comments appreciated (walkway?)