Black Ex-Marine Shot in His Own Home

Off Topic
101

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

But if cops are doing it than the are mere criminals.

Gangs have more authority someplace than cops.

Besides, authority in context of the situation is absolute, even if its a gang.[/quote]

Dude, who are you playing games with?

Last I checked, the Bloods don’t have the power to kill someone and have their version believed above any other in the courtroom based on them only being Bloods. They can’t kill someone and get off scott free from it with absolutely no reprimand.

[/quote]
Fine, but that has nothing specifically to do with racism. Cops do a lot of bad things for a lot of dumb reasons and get away with it. Plus it overlooks the fact that tons of people distrust and disbelieve cops.

Physical authority in an attack is absolute. They have exactly the same authority during the crime.

[quote]

I’m done even explaining this because acting like you can’t grasp this is insulting to me.

There isn’t one gang member around that carries the authority and control of the court like a police officer.[/quote]

Well, I bet there is, but again, that’s besides the point. Abuse of authority is one topic. Violent racism may sometime factor into a specific incident, but its a different topic.

102

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]andy1977 wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
The guy had a history of mental health problems and attacked cops with a butcher knife and a hatchet. His family is trying to ride the Trayvon Martin wave and cash in. Disgusting, and you sheep are eating it right up.

The case has already been scheduled for investigation by a Grand Jury. [/quote]

LOL at being for “stand your ground” in one thread but perfectly ok with cops breaking down someone’s door and that person NOT being allowed to protect his home and self from it.

LO fucking L[/quote]

You can not attack cops no matter where you are you fucking idiot.[/quote]

There is a bit of a story to this, but I promise there is a point. I used to live fairly close to an ex U.S. Army Special Forces soldier. Some people call them Green Berets, but a beret is an ugly french head piece. Anyway, he ran a jump school and he was proficient at jumping out of a plane anyway that is humanly possible and landing without a scratch. He told a couple stories about his time in Vietnam, but only to people who would not ask him about it, and he appeared to miss being there. One of the things he said that I will never forget is that he sits awake for several hours some nights with a rifle in his hands, a round in the chamber, a loaded magazine, the safety off, and his index finger on the trigger, just hoping some guys try to come through the door, so he can blow them away.

As we all know, police sometimes break into homes that they suspect illegal drugs are in, and they try to do this as quickly as possible, so the suspected criminal(s) cannot get rid of said drugs before police get inside. Hypothetically speaking, if police tried to break into the ex SF soldier’s house and he mowed them down as soon as the cops hit the door, and there were no drugs in the home, was the ex SF soldier doing something illegal by protecting his home from police?
[/quote]

That would depend wouldn’t it? If he knew he was shooting at police and he was not able to substantiate a “reasonable” case that he was in genuine fear for his life or insane then he would be “doing something illegal” wouldn’t he?

EDIT: Another thing. If he revealed or it came out that he had “s[a]t awake for several hours…with a rifle in his hands, a round in the chamber, a loaded magazine, the safety off, and his index finger on the trigger, just hoping some guys try to come through the door, so he can blow them away” then that would:

A. Help with a “not guilty on the grounds of insanity” plea

but

B. Indicate premeditation which would invite “murder” charges(as opposed to manslaughter) by the prosecutor and also undermine the defenedant’s insanity defence, because the premeditation indicates some ability to act rationally.[/quote]

Why would it be illegal to shoot several armed people who smash through your front door? Especially if they don’t knock first and state who they are.

How could anyone justify charging him with premeditation? If nobody breaks into his home, nobody gets shot.

103

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
To be fair, I do not think that a cop calling anyone the magic asterisks word, or spic, kike, whatever is necessarily racist.

What he probably is is someone who wants to dominate and does not care how he does that.

Racial or ethnic epithets lend themselves to humiliate other people.

Small dicks, big guns, not the best of combinations.[/quote]

I tend to agree. His racial comment is actually the least of my concerns as far as this incident. This was a veteran who got shafted by cops and then they lied about it.

I don’t like that.[/quote]

That makes sense. While it is obvious racism exist in many parts of the world, there is as good of a chance that the cop wanting to dominate the person/situation.

Either way, breaking into homes needs to stop. There wasn’t a fire to put out, nobody’s life was in danger, so stay the hell out of peoples’ homes.

104

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

So what?

Lets slap a camera on them the very second they start their shift.

They lie, the rest covers for them.

If you get a badge, a gun and the license to kill that is the very least one could ask of you.

[/quote]

I agree with this idea wholeheartedly. Cops are people, and some people inevitably become corrupted by power and end up abusing that power and we need to hold them accountable for their actions, which seems to be a bit of a problem with our current system of law enforcement. There is no reason in this day and age why we we can’t include recorders and/or video recording devices with the rest of the equipment provided to police officers, as well as require them to be on and unobstructed, in order to keep them honest.[/quote]
Although the police are a government institution, my fear would be a precedent eroding privacy in general. We are close enough to a big brother state as it is. An infrequent abuse of power doesn’t warrant drastic observatory procedure imo. As a matter of fact, I don’t want a police force who hesitates in the “heat of the moment” for fear of national media attention and unfair political floggings.

I haven’t really been following this case but so far we have two stories right? Police story vs. family story?[/quote]

There is a difference between requiring public servants to subject themselves to the scrutiny of the public they are sworn to serve and monitoring the general public all of the time. Our current system seems to be allowing too much in the way of corruption and abuse of power. Public servants who have authority over the general population need to be held accountable for their actions and subject to scrutiny.

And yes, there are two different stories here, and both have set off my bullshit detector to a certain extent. The cops are obviously lying to make themselves seem to be squeaky clean and attempt to cover their wrongdoing. The story the family and lawyers are telling is supposedly corroborated by a recording that hasn’t been released, so I can’t say what they are and are not lying about until it is released, but I will bet my left testicle they are not telling the whole truth either. Someone also posted something about the coroner’s report earlier that I have not checked out yet as well.

105

How can you be sure that a person identifing themslves as a police office is not just a criminal using a costume?

Also, the supreemcourt ruled that strip and full body searches where legal at the discresion of an officer. The problem is the current law enforcement policy overwhelmingly ignores discresion.

106

I’m still curious how a tazer was not able to adequately subdue an elderly man, even with only 1 probe firing into him.

This shit is mind blowing to me. It’s not like the cops were serving a high risk warrant here - they were responding to a medical alert.

The sad moral of the story is it’s better to die in your sleep than have a cop come try and help.

And I also agree - if someone comes banging on my door at 2 am I am going to answer with my 9mm in tow just in case.

107

Where I’m from police have the authority to enter without a warrant for unknown 911 emergencies, which this seems to have been initially. When the police arrived, they encountered an uncooperative person from a residence they just received an unknown 911 call from. As a responding officer, you have to be prepared for anything. Imagine if the occupant at the house was being attacked in the house while the cops knocked on the door for 10 minutes. All the guy had to do was open the door and let the cops determine that there was a mistake. Why this man didn’t do that is beyond me. Any reasonable person would have. Maybe old age or dementia came into play here.

Obviously this is a tragedy, but not enough is known to determine the facts. All we have is the account from the family of the deceased. Conclusions should not be drawn without gathering the facts first.

108

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
I’m still curious how a tazer was not able to adequately subdue an elderly man, even with only 1 probe firing into him.

[/quote]

The current flows from one prong to the other, closing the circuit. If you only get one prong in, you have an open circuit.

109

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Although the police are a government institution, my fear would be a precedent eroding privacy in general. [/quote]

Government transparency is a precedent for eroding privacy?

110

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Can’t see your pic/video post I’m at work…im sure it’s hilarious lol[/quote]
Hilarious?

About as funny as a couple blacks swinging from a tree I suppose. Or an unemployment line. Whichever line of sick humor you prefer.[/quote]

No need to be a dick. I can’t see the video posted in his comment cuz it’s blocked by my job. Usually you guys post a troll face or whatever so I was going off that assumption.

111

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Can’t see your pic/video post I’m at work…im sure it’s hilarious lol[/quote]
Hilarious?

About as funny as a couple blacks swinging from a tree I suppose. Or an unemployment line. Whichever line of sick humor you prefer.[/quote]

Who, me?[/quote]

112

[quote]Mac85 wrote:
Where I’m from police have the authority to enter without a warrant for unknown 911 emergencies, which this seems to have been initially. When the police arrived, they encountered an uncooperative person from a residence they just received an unknown 911 call from. As a responding officer, you have to be prepared for anything. Imagine if the occupant at the house was being attacked in the house while the cops knocked on the door for 10 minutes. All the guy had to do was open the door and let the cops determine that there was a mistake. Why this man didn’t do that is beyond me. Any reasonable person would have. Maybe old age or dementia came into play here.

Obviously this is a tragedy, but not enough is known to determine the facts. All we have is the account from the family of the deceased. Conclusions should not be drawn without gathering the facts first.
[/quote]

I agree with this in principle, but if the coroner’s report indeed shows what was reported, then it looks bad for the cops.

Do those of you who believe the cops are racist think that they legitimately hate black people, or do you think that they are simply more suspicious of black people? Both are obviously racism, though one could argue that the latter is simply “playing the odds,” though not so much in this case since the man was elderly.

I think the latter is much more prevalent than the former.

113

[quote]Mac85 wrote:
Where I’m from police have the authority to enter without a warrant for unknown 911 emergencies, which this seems to have been initially. When the police arrived, they encountered an uncooperative person from a residence they just received an unknown 911 call from. As a responding officer, you have to be prepared for anything. Imagine if the occupant at the house was being attacked in the house while the cops knocked on the door for 10 minutes. All the guy had to do was open the door and let the cops determine that there was a mistake. Why this man didn’t do that is beyond me. Any reasonable person would have. Maybe old age or dementia came into play here.

Obviously this is a tragedy, but not enough is known to determine the facts. All we have is the account from the family of the deceased. Conclusions should not be drawn without gathering the facts first.
[/quote]

Did you read any part of this thread or just jump to the end with your great wisdom?

114

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Although the police are a government institution, my fear would be a precedent eroding privacy in general. [/quote]

Government transparency is a precedent for eroding privacy?[/quote]
They would be walking traffic cams.

115

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Mac85 wrote:
Where I’m from police have the authority to enter without a warrant for unknown 911 emergencies, which this seems to have been initially. When the police arrived, they encountered an uncooperative person from a residence they just received an unknown 911 call from. As a responding officer, you have to be prepared for anything. Imagine if the occupant at the house was being attacked in the house while the cops knocked on the door for 10 minutes. All the guy had to do was open the door and let the cops determine that there was a mistake. Why this man didn’t do that is beyond me. Any reasonable person would have. Maybe old age or dementia came into play here.

Obviously this is a tragedy, but not enough is known to determine the facts. All we have is the account from the family of the deceased. Conclusions should not be drawn without gathering the facts first.
[/quote]

Did you read any part of this thread or just jump to the end with your great wisdom?[/quote]

To this I say “Cheese”. Cheese good sir! Cheese

116

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Mac85 wrote:
Where I’m from police have the authority to enter without a warrant for unknown 911 emergencies, which this seems to have been initially. When the police arrived, they encountered an uncooperative person from a residence they just received an unknown 911 call from. As a responding officer, you have to be prepared for anything. Imagine if the occupant at the house was being attacked in the house while the cops knocked on the door for 10 minutes. All the guy had to do was open the door and let the cops determine that there was a mistake. Why this man didn’t do that is beyond me. Any reasonable person would have. Maybe old age or dementia came into play here.

Obviously this is a tragedy, but not enough is known to determine the facts. All we have is the account from the family of the deceased. Conclusions should not be drawn without gathering the facts first.
[/quote]

Did you read any part of this thread or just jump to the end with your great wisdom?[/quote]

To this I say “Cheese”. Cheese good sir! Cheese[/quote]

I mean really spend some time reading through the thread is it that fucking hard?

117

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]Mac85 wrote:
Where I’m from police have the authority to enter without a warrant for unknown 911 emergencies, which this seems to have been initially. When the police arrived, they encountered an uncooperative person from a residence they just received an unknown 911 call from. As a responding officer, you have to be prepared for anything. Imagine if the occupant at the house was being attacked in the house while the cops knocked on the door for 10 minutes. All the guy had to do was open the door and let the cops determine that there was a mistake. Why this man didn’t do that is beyond me. Any reasonable person would have. Maybe old age or dementia came into play here.

Obviously this is a tragedy, but not enough is known to determine the facts. All we have is the account from the family of the deceased. Conclusions should not be drawn without gathering the facts first.
[/quote]

I agree with this in principle, but if the coroner’s report indeed shows what was reported, then it looks bad for the cops.

Do those of you who believe the cops are racist think that they legitimately hate black people, or do you think that they are simply more suspicious of black people? Both are obviously racism, though one could argue that the latter is simply “playing the odds,” though not so much in this case since the man was elderly.

I think the latter is much more prevalent than the former.[/quote]

I don’t personally understand these types of questions. It is no longer socially acceptable in most places to show outward racism so no one is expecting a “racist” to even consider himself one today. You have tons of outlets that allow the same behavior without even admitting it to yourself if you happen to be that judgmental. This is what I meant before about “culturalism” now being the new “racism” because it allows the same bias openly without using the same terminology. That is why we hear that all rap music is gangster music and about drugs…or that a hood somehow now means “criminal”.

I doubt many of you will find the stereotypical “deep south country KKK member” when we speak of racism today. It is institutionalized…like in allowing a man to be murdered in his house and it takes THIS long for justice to come around.

118

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is what I meant before about “culturalism” now being the new “racism” because it allows the same bias openly without using the same terminology. That is why we hear that all rap music is gangster music and about drugs[/quote]

Yeah, because country music is pretty much free from stereotyping.

119

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is what I meant before about “culturalism” now being the new “racism” because it allows the same bias openly without using the same terminology. That is why we hear that all rap music is gangster music and about drugs[/quote]

Yeah, because country music is pretty much free from stereotyping.[/quote]

Free from making the creators and listeners of it out to be criminals just for the music alone, yes.

The issue is not stereotyping in and of itself but the overall effect of that stereotype on society.

No one here thinks we will ever get rid of “racists” or is trying to.

120

Can’t agree on the music issue. So much of rap is about being a criminal, gangster, drug dealer. The artist bring that assumption on them selves. I agree that there are rap artist that do not rap about those things but most people arn’t going to wade through and enormous pile of shit to find something pailleatable to them.

As for this case it just shows that the police have a very limited scope of tools to use when responding to a call. Find suspicion, interrogate, aim and pull the trigger. There is the emergency notion to every call like because there was a possible emergency we need an immediate resolution. It’s like the cop that talks the guy off the ledge of a building doesn’t exis except in the movies. It is funny in the movies there are always a ton of police on the scene waiting for that guy to arrive. Maybe this is what happens when he is sick or on vacation?