T Nation

BJJ vs NFL Grappling Match

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighter Gil Castillo faces professional NFL player John Maclaughlin in a challenge grappling match

Incredible!!! I’ve never seen a little guy man handle such a big dude before!!! “Ok I’m lying, It’s just nice to see it on tape and on T-Nation!!”

[quote]tgatl wrote:
Incredible!!! I’ve never seen a little guy man handle such a big dude before!!! “Ok I’m lying, It’s just nice to see it on tape and on T-Nation!!”[/quote]

I didn’t post this link to “dis big guys”.

I’m sure he’s a much better football player than Gil.

I just posted it for those who aren’t familiar with bjj to see what all the fuss is about.

[quote]XxMAGxX wrote:
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighter Gil Castillo faces professional NFL player John Maclaughlin in a challenge grappling match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dVqMIt8jSY

[/quote]

Who is this guy? I found a guy named John McLaughlin that was Tampa’s 5th round pick in 1999. He played in 6 games and had 3 tackles in 2000 and can find no other stats for him.

Same guy?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Who is this guy? I found a guy named John McLaughlin that was Tampa’s 5th round pick in 1999. He played in 6 games and had 3 tackles in 2000 and can find no other stats for him.

Same guy?[/quote]

I have no clue, I don’t watch football and I never have.

But it really doesn’t matter. Even if he was a 25th round pick and never played one NFL game it doesn’t change the fact that he is a large and, most likely relatively, athletic man.

If he was an NFL starter, all it would mean was that he is a better football player. Nothing more.

On the other hand Gil isn’t the best bjjer out there either.

Again, this video is just to show those unfamiliar with bjj (seen in a non-mma context) how graceful it is, and how powerful it is simply my using leverage to overcome (what I’ll assume to be) a stronger opponent.

[quote]XxMAGxX wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Who is this guy? I found a guy named John McLaughlin that was Tampa’s 5th round pick in 1999. He played in 6 games and had 3 tackles in 2000 and can find no other stats for him.

Same guy?

I have no clue, I don’t watch football and I never have.

But it really doesn’t matter. Even if he was a 25th round pick and never played one NFL game it doesn’t change the fact that he is a large and, most likely relatively, athletic man.

If he was an NFL starter, all it would mean was that he is a better football player. Nothing more.

On the other hand Gil isn’t the best bjjer out there either.

Again, this video is just to show those unfamiliar with bjj (seen in a non-mma context) how graceful it is, and how powerful it is simply my using leverage to overcome (what I’ll assume to be) a stronger opponent.

[/quote]

I’m not knocking BJJ as I think it’s an interesting discipline, but to me, this video doesn’t look like antything more than a typcial college wrestling practice (other than some submission holds).

I wrestled in HS at 126 lbs. While we had a very good team, I wasn’t what I consider good. At times, I was put in a circuit (we called them ABCDs) with 3 heavyweights. I would almost always outpoint them because they could never counter a low single against a small, quick guy.

Just messing around in college, I took down a much bigger O-lineman in my fraternity. This guy was a starter on a top 20 D1A team. Of course, once I got him down, I jumped up and ran away.

What do my above examples prove? Not much. They would have all kicked my ass in a fight, but I could get them on the ground using superior quickness, balance and leverage. That’s all it proves. If it were a fight, I would likely get clubbed in the head a few times once I got on the low single, if I even made it that far. I doubt I could’ve withstood many of those.

DB

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:

What do my above examples prove? Not much. They would have all kicked my ass in a fight, but I could get them on the ground using superior quickness, balance and leverage. That’s all it proves. If it were a fight, I would likely get clubbed in the head a few times once I got on the low single, if I even made it that far. I doubt I could’ve withstood many of those.

DB[/quote]

I suppose it was inevitable that someone was going to bring “real fighting” into this.

Luckily we don’t have to guess or speculate on the outcome of someone trained in ground fighting vs much larger /stronger opponent with limited but not non-existent ground skills.

It’s all clearly documented in the early UFC matches (when there were no weight classes, rounds, limited rules) and a long documented (filmed) history of Brazilian Vale Tudo.

I’m sure you can still rent Royce vs Ken Shamrock, Royce vs Dan Severn, Royce vs Kimo etc…

Of course if you have a large/strong man with bjj skills, he’s going to tear apart a smaller man with bjj skills, but as of yet (based on documented fights - not what some poster’s cousin supposedly did to some world class bjjer) if you were to pit:

small bjjer vs large/strong althetic man with limited (but not non-existent ground skills)

The bjjer wins.

But like I said, that would all change if the large man was well versed in bjj.

Again, my POV is based on documented fights (bjj or vale tudo) that have spanned 50 years, not what my cousin Vinnie overheard some guy at a bar supposedly say.

[quote]XxMAGxX wrote:
tgatl wrote:
Incredible!!! I’ve never seen a little guy man handle such a big dude before!!! “Ok I’m lying, It’s just nice to see it on tape and on T-Nation!!”

I didn’t post this link to “dis big guys”.

I’m sure he’s a much better football player than Gil.

I just posted it for those who aren’t familiar with bjj to see what all the fuss is about.[/quote]

I’m not either… Both men are incredible athlete’s!!! I’m must happy to see BJJ getting exposed in a postive manner. Cheers, TGATl

At many points in that match the football player could have crushed the BJJ guy. When he was shooting for his legs, he could easily have picked him up and slammed him on his head.

I seriously doubt the football player knew any submissions, so exactly what was his arsenal? To pin the guy?

I’m pretty sure that BJJ is defenseless against a base ball bat.

Now I have no empirical data to support this, but in the real world - BJJ will lose to a baseball bat almost every time.

I’m just saying - if your gonna really fight, fight to win or just keep your ass on the bar stool.

[quote]XxMAGxX wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:

What do my above examples prove? Not much. They would have all kicked my ass in a fight, but I could get them on the ground using superior quickness, balance and leverage. That’s all it proves. If it were a fight, I would likely get clubbed in the head a few times once I got on the low single, if I even made it that far. I doubt I could’ve withstood many of those.

DB

I suppose it was inevitable that someone was going to bring “real fighting” into this.

Luckily we don’t have to guess or speculate on the outcome of someone trained in ground fighting vs much larger /stronger opponent with limited but not non-existent ground skills.

It’s all clearly documented in the early UFC matches (when there were no weight classes, rounds, limited rules) and a long documented (filmed) history of Brazilian Vale Tudo.

I’m sure you can still rent Royce vs Ken Shamrock, Royce vs Dan Severn, Royce vs Kimo etc…

Of course if you have a large/strong man with bjj skills, he’s going to tear apart a smaller man with bjj skills, but as of yet (based on documented fights - not what some poster’s cousin supposedly did to some world class bjjer) if you were to pit:

small bjjer vs large/strong althetic man with limited (but not non-existent ground skills)

The bjjer wins.

But like I said, that would all change if the large man was well versed in bjj.

Again, my POV is based on documented fights (bjj or vale tudo) that have spanned 50 years, not what my cousin Vinnie overheard some guy at a bar supposedly say.
[/quote]

Look, you wanted to show everyone “what all the fuss is about” when it comes to bjj. I don’t think this video shows anything. That’s what my point was.

I also gave anectdotal evidence that even a moderately trained smaller grappler (with no bjj training) can outmaneuver a larger, stronger, very athletic man with little grappling training. When you have a controlled environment (i.e. grappling rules), a smaller, quicker guy with some training will almost always outperform the larger, less-trained guy.

I think it has less to do with grappling style and more to do with quickness and technique. The video you posted doesn’t show me “what all the fuss is about.” I fail to see how this is an attack on bjj.

DB

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I’m pretty sure that BJJ is defenseless against a base ball bat.

Now I have no empirical data to support this, but in the real world - BJJ will lose to a baseball bat almost every time.

I’m just saying - if your gonna really fight, fight to win or just keep your ass on the bar stool. [/quote]

Why do some of you get so upset when you see grappling matches?

Why the need to turn everything into, “Yeah, the big guy could have crushed him” Or “I would shoot him with my gun”

Seriously, this sounds like those Napoleon guys who see pictures of bodybuilders and can’t stop pointing out that they aren’t functional because they would be poor NFL players or gymnasts.

Who cares if a gun would kill a grappler?

Some of you sound Emo.

We could all get nuked and die… why lift weights… life is so meaningless.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
At many points in that match the football player could have crushed the BJJ guy. When he was shooting for his legs, he could easily have picked him up and slammed him on his head.

I seriously doubt the football player knew any submissions, so exactly what was his arsenal? To pin the guy? [/quote]

Yes, and at any point in time the rest of the football team could have come through that door and anally raped the bjj guy.

But do you know why none of these things happened?

I’ll give you a hint, actually make that the answer: Because this isn’t a fight, it’s a friendly grappling match.

Again, why are some of you so threatened by someone good in their respective sport?

Shouldn’t a professional bodybuilder beat a NFLer in a bodybuilding contest? Despite the weight difference there may or may not be?

Shouldn’t the NFLer be a better football player be better at football than an NBAer is at football?

Shouldn’t a grappler be a better grappler than anyone else?

Why do people get their panties in a bunch when a fighter is a better fighter than anyone else?

Shouldn’t it be obvious that he is?

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
XxMAGxX wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:

What do my above examples prove? Not much. They would have all kicked my ass in a fight, but I could get them on the ground using superior quickness, balance and leverage. That’s all it proves. If it were a fight, I would likely get clubbed in the head a few times once I got on the low single, if I even made it that far. I doubt I could’ve withstood many of those.

DB

I suppose it was inevitable that someone was going to bring “real fighting” into this.

Luckily we don’t have to guess or speculate on the outcome of someone trained in ground fighting vs much larger /stronger opponent with limited but not non-existent ground skills.

It’s all clearly documented in the early UFC matches (when there were no weight classes, rounds, limited rules) and a long documented (filmed) history of Brazilian Vale Tudo.

I’m sure you can still rent Royce vs Ken Shamrock, Royce vs Dan Severn, Royce vs Kimo etc…

Of course if you have a large/strong man with bjj skills, he’s going to tear apart a smaller man with bjj skills, but as of yet (based on documented fights - not what some poster’s cousin supposedly did to some world class bjjer) if you were to pit:

small bjjer vs large/strong althetic man with limited (but not non-existent ground skills)

The bjjer wins.

But like I said, that would all change if the large man was well versed in bjj.

Again, my POV is based on documented fights (bjj or vale tudo) that have spanned 50 years, not what my cousin Vinnie overheard some guy at a bar supposedly say.

Look, you wanted to show everyone “what all the fuss is about” when it comes to bjj. I don’t think this video shows anything. That’s what my point was.

I also gave anectdotal evidence that even a moderately trained smaller grappler (with no bjj training) can outmaneuver a larger, stronger, very athletic man with little grappling training. When you have a controlled environment (i.e. grappling rules), a smaller, quicker guy with some training will almost always outperform the larger, less-trained guy.

I think it has less to do with grappling style and more to do with quickness and technique. The video you posted doesn’t show me “what all the fuss is about.” I fail to see how this is an attack on bjj.

DB [/quote]

Then I’m not sure I’m following your train of thought. Why bring up that you could have gotten mauled by your teammates if it were a real fight?

Again, I’m not even sure why we’re talking about fighting when we’re looking at a grappling video.

Of course he got handled, he was wearing capris.

[quote]tgatl wrote:
I’m not either… Both men are incredible athlete’s!!! I’m must happy to see BJJ getting exposed in a postive manner. Cheers, TGATl

[/quote]

I agree, both men are incredible athletes.

For anyone to hate on either of them is beyond my comprehension.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
XxMAGxX wrote:
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighter Gil Castillo faces professional NFL player John Maclaughlin in a challenge grappling match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dVqMIt8jSY

Who is this guy? I found a guy named John McLaughlin that was Tampa’s 5th round pick in 1999. He played in 6 games and had 3 tackles in 2000 and can find no other stats for him.

Same guy?[/quote]

gil castillo isn’t much of a big name either.

still, the football player is in much better shape than body builders. he does a lot of cardio.

size means nothing if you can’t do anything with it. as we just saw.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I’m pretty sure that BJJ is defenseless against a base ball bat.

Now I have no empirical data to support this, but in the real world - BJJ will lose to a baseball bat almost every time.

I’m just saying - if your gonna really fight, fight to win or just keep your ass on the bar stool. [/quote]

not necessarily true. a bjjer would more likely to be able to take the bat from his assailant and use it against him than an average guy or foot ball player.

[quote]texasguy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I’m pretty sure that BJJ is defenseless against a base ball bat.

Now I have no empirical data to support this, but in the real world - BJJ will lose to a baseball bat almost every time.

I’m just saying - if your gonna really fight, fight to win or just keep your ass on the bar stool.

not necessarily true. a bjjer would more likely to be able to take the bat from his assailant and use it against him than an average guy or foot ball player. [/quote]

Well, considering that bjj never deals with disarmament, it’s all speculation.

And honestly who cares.

BTW: I think a baseball player would be the best at wielding a bat. But that might just be my crazy notion of sport specificity. lol

[quote]texasguy wrote:

still, the football player is in much better shape than body builders. he does a lot of cardio.

[/quote]

This thread isn’t to bring down big guys or bodybuilders.

Who says he doesn’t know what to do with his size? It got him in the NFL!

I think I now see why some big guys get defensive about these Napoleon type comments.