[quote]NoGi1 wrote:
I have the second edition on kindle, is the third one worth getting?[/quote]
If you have the 2nd edition I am not sure I would run out to buy the third. Money could be spent on the associated videos, or maybe nutrition/supplements/bourbon.
A lot of people see benefits from at least a protein supplement, and if your diet isn’t really on point one could help as you lean out as well.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]NoGi1 wrote:
I am not a complete novice, I can deadlift 265lbs so I don’t wanna drain myself by deadlifting 3 times a weka when all my other lifts are so much weaker.
[/quote]
You have to be sure that it’s good form and not you bending your lower back outrageously.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
have you considered a different style of martial art? i have blackbelts in hapkido and taekwondo. If you are familiar with my styles,you will notice there is a bit more emphasis on striking. Rather than look at a style that seems to be the best for most,why not think about one that would utilize your strengths. myself as an example,I am a tall guy,for me,striking with hands,palms,knee strikes,etc. are good for my body type.
i prefer to do this,if i get taken down,i will grapple til i can get on my feet again. Have you learned a thumb lock? I,ve used this and many other simple submission techniques to tap black belt bjj guys. we,ve always started on the ground for these sumbission tournaments,taking away my striking.
Anyway,if you look on the internet,you,re probably gonna get the idea that tkd and hapkido is weak. dont fall into that trap. find what works best for you and try to trully master your techniques. good luck and keep us posted. Confusion[/quote]
Very funny. It should be posted on Bullshido. [/quote]
I am not sure whats funny about this? hahahahahahaha
[quote]Ranzo wrote:
I am about 195 pounds right now and I can name more than one guy at 140-150 lbs who can beat me on the ground. Now they have to work for it but muscle only gets you so far. Keep working on your technique and it will come. Lift some weights and get stronger too.[/quote]
I am a 5’10" 230 pound Purple Belt with a background in powerlifting. I compete and do well. Our chief instructor is out of St. Louis and is about 170 soaking wet. He can tie me in a knot in about 2 minutes. It’s not about size or really strength. It’s about technique and also good cardio.
[quote]MWP wrote:
It’s about technique and also good cardio. [/quote]
I think cardio and strength-endurance is what people are actually talking about when they say that they cannot handle rolling in the manner that the OP is talking about.
If you have the strength-endurance to last, then you’ll be able to work through the positioning and continue to grapple. If not. then you’ll just gas and have absolutely nothing left to deal with what your opponent does.
[quote]MWP wrote:
[quote]Ranzo wrote:
I am about 195 pounds right now and I can name more than one guy at 140-150 lbs who can beat me on the ground. Now they have to work for it but muscle only gets you so far. Keep working on your technique and it will come. Lift some weights and get stronger too.[/quote]
I am a 5’10" 230 pound Purple Belt with a background in powerlifting. I compete and do well. Our chief instructor is out of St. Louis and is about 170 soaking wet. He can tie me in a knot in about 2 minutes. It’s not about size or really strength. It’s about technique and also good cardio. [/quote]
Question, if you had the same skill level as your instructor,would your superior strength allow you to defeat him? answer,almost definately. strength is not everything nor should it be too much of a distraction,however it is a factor,period.
Op,
Strength and attributes will win if technique is equal. But attributes fade, technique does not. I’m bjj , 13 years… Brown. It’s a bitch. Look at the work of the champs, the small guys. Marcelo Garcia, mendes bros, caio Terra, . They are all giant killers and it is hard work and technique. Don’t worry about tweaking your body until you’re purple. BTW getting beat down is how you learn. Best of luck… Don’t give up!
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
have you considered a different style of martial art? i have blackbelts in hapkido and taekwondo. If you are familiar with my styles,you will notice there is a bit more emphasis on striking. Rather than look at a style that seems to be the best for most,why not think about one that would utilize your strengths. myself as an example,I am a tall guy,for me,striking with hands,palms,knee strikes,etc. are good for my body type.
i prefer to do this,if i get taken down,i will grapple til i can get on my feet again. Have you learned a thumb lock? I,ve used this and many other simple submission techniques to tap black belt bjj guys. we,ve always started on the ground for these sumbission tournaments,taking away my striking.
Anyway,if you look on the internet,you,re probably gonna get the idea that tkd and hapkido is weak. dont fall into that trap. find what works best for you and try to trully master your techniques. good luck and keep us posted. Confusion[/quote]
Very funny. It should be posted on Bullshido. [/quote]
I am not sure whats funny about this? hahahahahahaha[/quote]
A TKD guy tapping out a BJJ Blackbelt with a thumb lock is what is funny.
Someone should have taught that deadly technique to the other fighters in UFC 1 and then where would we be?
I tell you where we would be, fighters would be training TKD for their ground game.
it was cheating,small joint manipulation isnt allowed. the point i was trying to make was that bjj has a certain level of techniques and sometimes simple things that arent part of the bjj training program can surprise the bjj fighter. it was actually a hapkido instructor that taught me that one. i have also submitted bjj fighters from their guard by using a reverse neck crank. An excellent guard wouldn,t allow that,but a strong guy with long arms can accomplish it on a less than perfect guard. anyway, what style are you training?
[quote]confusion wrote:
it was cheating,small joint manipulation isnt allowed. the point i was trying to make was that bjj has a certain level of techniques and sometimes simple things that arent part of the bjj training program can surprise the bjj fighter. it was actually a hapkido instructor that taught me that one. i have also submitted bjj fighters from their guard by using a reverse neck crank. An excellent guard wouldn,t allow that,but a strong guy with long arms can accomplish it on a less than perfect guard. anyway, what style are you training? [/quote]
I train the same as you: troll fu.
Hey guys I have been posting on SS forums about starting SS in preperation to resume grappling.
They all say eat alot, don’t do cardio and if you do cardio with it you are not doing it and won’t make real gains or recover.
I had to ride my bike to work today, about a quater of a mile due to my motorbike being out of action. I cycles baout a quarter of a mile and was exhausted, sweat was pumping out of me, my legs ached and I felt kind nsckered.
Surely at around 30 percent bodyfat, bulking and only doing SS won’t be very wise?
I feel like everyone is giving me contradicting advice. I am really confused.
The whole “eat a fuckton” part of SS is based on the assumption that you’re already skinny, and that you’re looking SOLELY into getting your strength up and nothing else.
Disregard it.
[quote]NoGi1 wrote:
Hey guys I have been posting on SS forums about starting SS in preperation to resume grappling.
They all say eat alot, don’t do cardio and if you do cardio with it you are not doing it and won’t make real gains or recover.
I had to ride my bike to work today, about a quater of a mile due to my motorbike being out of action. I cycles baout a quarter of a mile and was exhausted, sweat was pumping out of me, my legs ached and I felt kind nsckered.
Surely at around 30 percent bodyfat, bulking and only doing SS won’t be very wise?
I feel like everyone is giving me contradicting advice. I am really confused.[/quote]
Do you want to be fat and get strong or be leaner and get strong? Personally, I would get lean first (and you can lift weights to help get there).
Being a weak white belt you will get dominated by everyone in the gym.
Good news is, you will also learn technique better than anyone else in the gym. If you are a strong dude you can power a move instead of working the technique. That means you will pick up bad habbits.
I have trained with a large number of top level guys and the common thing they all tell me is that teaching a strong guy is harder than teaching a weak guy. Sure the strong guy can do pretty well up to about low purple level but after that they really have to relearn techniques.
You will have a longer learning curve before you are tapping guys on the mat but why the hurry? BJJ is not a sprint. After almost 10 years of training, I am just about starting to get OK and I am cool with that. I am not interested in being double world champion at white belt, or blue belt, or purple, or brown. I want to be the best blackbelt I can be when I get there.
[quote]magick wrote:
The whole “eat a fuckton” part of SS is based on the assumption that you’re already skinny, and that you’re looking SOLELY into getting your strength up and nothing else.
Disregard it.[/quote]
Thats what I thought but even after I said I was 30 percent bodyfat they said the same thing. Apparently if you do cardio at 30% body fat you won’t progress on SS.
[quote]NoGi1 wrote:
[quote]magick wrote:
The whole “eat a fuckton” part of SS is based on the assumption that you’re already skinny, and that you’re looking SOLELY into getting your strength up and nothing else.
Disregard it.[/quote]
Thats what I thought but even after I said I was 30 percent bodyfat they said the same thing. Apparently if you do cardio at 30% body fat you won’t progress on SS.[/quote]
Again, disregard that advice; the people giving it to you don’t know what they are talking about and are likely not accomplished grapplers (or if they are, they likely just force everything, which is not going to get you that far unless your are naturally a very strong person, and even then you will eventually hit a brick wall in terms of progression and have to go back and focus on things like timing and technique anyways).
Do read and re-read Cockney’s post above though because it’s very true. If you want to run SS though, go for it. Just realize that, as myself and others have stated, it’s not going to have anywhere near the carryover and effect that more sport specific conditioning and technical refinement will.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]NoGi1 wrote:
[quote]magick wrote:
The whole “eat a fuckton” part of SS is based on the assumption that you’re already skinny, and that you’re looking SOLELY into getting your strength up and nothing else.
Disregard it.[/quote]
Thats what I thought but even after I said I was 30 percent bodyfat they said the same thing. Apparently if you do cardio at 30% body fat you won’t progress on SS.[/quote]
Again, disregard that advice; the people giving it to you don’t know what they are talking about and are likely not accomplished grapplers (or if they are, they likely just force everything, which is not going to get you that far unless your are naturally a very strong person, and even then you will eventually hit a brick wall in terms of progression and have to go back and focus on things like timing and technique anyways).
Do read and re-read Cockney’s post above though because it’s very true. If you want to run SS though, go for it. Just realize that, as myself and others have stated, it’s not going to have anywhere near the carryover and effect that more sport specific conditioning and technical refinement will.[/quote]
Thanks Sento. You are a very nice chap. I really do appreaciate the help. I just feel really confused, there are so many differing opinions and its hard to wade through the bullshit.
Alot of the MMA/Grappling forums seem to suggest 5/3/1 over SS but I thought it was for people who were mid level lifters.
Anyone, thanks for being cool 
I like the look of the Tnation article outlining a 8/6/3 program. This seems more like a ws4sb program, yet it has a linear way to progress and a long term percentge application. On top of that it will offer far better muscle endurance. I will make a choice by tonight and just stick with it.
[quote]NoGi1 wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]NoGi1 wrote:
[quote]magick wrote:
The whole “eat a fuckton” part of SS is based on the assumption that you’re already skinny, and that you’re looking SOLELY into getting your strength up and nothing else.
Disregard it.[/quote]
Thats what I thought but even after I said I was 30 percent bodyfat they said the same thing. Apparently if you do cardio at 30% body fat you won’t progress on SS.[/quote]
Again, disregard that advice; the people giving it to you don’t know what they are talking about and are likely not accomplished grapplers (or if they are, they likely just force everything, which is not going to get you that far unless your are naturally a very strong person, and even then you will eventually hit a brick wall in terms of progression and have to go back and focus on things like timing and technique anyways).
Do read and re-read Cockney’s post above though because it’s very true. If you want to run SS though, go for it. Just realize that, as myself and others have stated, it’s not going to have anywhere near the carryover and effect that more sport specific conditioning and technical refinement will.[/quote]
Thanks Sento. You are a very nice chap. I really do appreaciate the help. I just feel really confused, there are so many differing opinions and its hard to wade through the bullshit.
Alot of the MMA/Grappling forums seem to suggest 5/3/1 over SS but I thought it was for people who were mid level lifters.
Anyone, thanks for being cool
I like the look of the Tnation article outlining a 8/6/3 program. This seems more like a ws4sb program, yet it has a linear way to progress and a long term percentge application. On top of that it will offer far better muscle endurance. I will make a choice by tonight and just stick with it.[/quote]
If you are confused, listen to Sento. Cockney Blue is quite a good grappler, he has some videos out here on the site if I remember. I would take his advice too.
Trust me I am not a huge guy, and huge guys look intimidating. What you need to know is even though they are strong, they most likely lack stamina and if you technique is solid and you trust in it and use it you can frustrate them into making a mistake and capitalize on it. This is the whole getting your ass kicked and getting better phase, and it never really stops. Then as you eat more lift weights you get stronger and the more you roll the more BJJ strength you will get as well. Martial arts aint easy. Look around your gym and count how many people have been there longer than a year or two. Stick with it.
[quote]NoGi1 wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]NoGi1 wrote:
[quote]magick wrote:
The whole “eat a fuckton” part of SS is based on the assumption that you’re already skinny, and that you’re looking SOLELY into getting your strength up and nothing else.
Disregard it.[/quote]
Thats what I thought but even after I said I was 30 percent bodyfat they said the same thing. Apparently if you do cardio at 30% body fat you won’t progress on SS.[/quote]
Again, disregard that advice; the people giving it to you don’t know what they are talking about and are likely not accomplished grapplers (or if they are, they likely just force everything, which is not going to get you that far unless your are naturally a very strong person, and even then you will eventually hit a brick wall in terms of progression and have to go back and focus on things like timing and technique anyways).
Do read and re-read Cockney’s post above though because it’s very true. If you want to run SS though, go for it. Just realize that, as myself and others have stated, it’s not going to have anywhere near the carryover and effect that more sport specific conditioning and technical refinement will.[/quote]
Thanks Sento. You are a very nice chap. I really do appreaciate the help. I just feel really confused, there are so many differing opinions and its hard to wade through the bullshit.
Alot of the MMA/Grappling forums seem to suggest 5/3/1 over SS but I thought it was for people who were mid level lifters.
Anyone, thanks for being cool
I like the look of the Tnation article outlining a 8/6/3 program. This seems more like a ws4sb program, yet it has a linear way to progress and a long term percentge application. On top of that it will offer far better muscle endurance. I will make a choice by tonight and just stick with it.[/quote]
No problem
5/3/1 is a little more flexible and less dogmatic than SS, 5/3/1 also has you focusing one one foundational lift per workout instead of 3 like SS, which is more conducive to a fighter (going hard on squats 3 times per week, and doing lots of Combat sports specific conditioning can be a bit much to recover from).
SS is nice for football players or other short duration high intensity athletes who need to learn the basic techniques involved in the basic powerlifts (bench, squat, and dead). But IMO, it’s not a great program for Martial Artists/Combat athletes, or at least it’s going to be outgrown much faster.
As far as conflicting opinions go, always go with the opinions which are derived from first hand experience. In other words, there is probably a reason that most of the MMA/grappling forums members are favoring 5/3/1 and it’s most likely not because they simply haven’t tried SS. Just something to consider.
[quote]NoGi1 wrote:
Alot of the MMA/Grappling forums seem to suggest 5/3/1 over SS but I thought it was for people who were mid level lifters.
[/quote]
Program-wise, 5/3/1 is clearly superior. You can customize it and it has slower progression. It’s meant to measure gains in years, while SS is months.
But since you seemingly have no strength whatsoever(a given in today’s society), being in the gym 3x a week and doing all of them main movements 2-3x a week will help.
As such, SS is good because of the mentality and focus behind it. Too many people go to the gym and do “pointless” exercises like curls, and SS is meant to veer you away from that.
Just going to the gym and doing a program set up like SS and increasing the weight 5-10lb a week will be more than sufficient to getting you started.
Once you reach a basic/min. amount of strength (varies, but my personal opinion is being able to squat bw, bench .75xbw, ohp .5bw, 5+chin/pull-up, deadlift 1.5xbw), then strength is probably no longer a serious issue in your martial arts training.
Personally, I found my body just responds better and I can perform movement patterns better when I got stronger.
When people say strong people brute-force technique, I imagine they’re referring to actually strong people. But being able to squat your bw is not being strong. Rather, it should be considered normal, and that it isn’t considered normal is sad =(
So get to normal first. It will allow you to actually work on technique.