BJ vs KenFlo / Anderson Silva vs Forrest Griffin

[quote]slimjim wrote:

Basically he fights the way he does because he feels that leaves him the least exposed and that there is continuity between his striking and grappling. It is not because he is unfamiliar with the other aspects of the game.

My fear in this fight for BJ is that Florian is a tough fighter, and while BJ will probably start off strong, if he is unable to finish K-flo in the first couple of rounds (which may be hard given Kenny’s durability,) Kenny will still be ready to fight in the last three. [/quote]

Yea I wasn’t saying he’s static as bad, but just easier to game plan for because you know what you are going to get. Some of those fights say GSP had against Sherk and Kos especially it seems like they game-planned for a great striker and were totally shocked and unprepared for the wrestling GSP came out with.

However like I also said I agree that though you know what you are going to get with BJ, what you are going to get, especially at lightweight is going to be very good.

Your last point I think is how most people feel, or at least I do, Favor BJ early, Favor KenFlo late.

I don’t know, but BJ better do something to save face after GSP or his career is going downhill.

With all the talk, man, im really looking forward to this!!

I think it will be a better fight than the GSP one, as it will be a lot closer. If BJ comes in fully focused, its hard to bet against him, even though I do want Florian to win. Its a real test for how much BJ still wants it. To see whether he can put all the shit from the GSP fight behind him and beat a top class opponent.

The thing is, you know Florian is going to be super preped for the fight. He looked awesome last time out. Its his second shot at the title, and he probably thinks he couldnt be fighting BJ at a better time…

Well I’m not a seasoned MMA fan, but I’ll be rooting for Florian. I like an intelligent fighter, and I like an allrounder. I’ve read that his MT skills are now something to be reckoned with, having worked with Marc Dellagrotte at Sityodtong like the OP said, and that this has maximised the potential of his sharp elbows and forearms. He’s also a great physical athlete, although I think enough has been made of this contrast with BJ.

I think the fight is going to come down to who has the better strategy, not necessarily who is the more skilled fighter.

If kenflo learns from GSP’s success and uses that to make a game plan specifically to beat BJ’s “style” of fighting (and possibly lack of conditioning) then I think he’ll win.

If BJ learns from his own loss and actually gets someone good to come up with a strategy to utilize his strengths and take advantage of Florian’s weaknesses (and works on his conditioning), then I think BJ will keep the belt.

I am leaning toward K-flo. If, indeed, BJ losses I can see him calling it quits for awhile. I do not see him grinding out a few fights to get a title shot at this point in his life. This would also open up the light weight division nicely.

just because Bj lost to GSP everyone rights him off. Bj owns the 155 class. Kenflo couldn’t even finish Huerta(who imo is just a brawler). GSP ran the floor on him because when all skills are equal the stronger, heavier fighter will win. Bj will sit on the top of 155 for a long time.

That’s right PaddleSurfer, stand up for your countrymen!!!

But it’s not so much that we’re writing off BJ. No one doubts his skill, it’s just his natural talent can only take him so far.

Granted he’s one of the greats, but once that mortality is shown . . .

BJ is a great fighter. But KenFlo has proven to be a smart fighter. And there were chinks in BJ’s armor that GSP exposed, and that KenFlo can use.

True, he’s not the heavy hitter GSP is. But he’s long term Sidyotong, which makes him a skilled striker.

I do not think KenFlo is going to walk all over BJ. But I do not doubt he’ll win.

[quote]PaddleSurfer wrote:
just because Bj lost to GSP everyone rights him off. Bj owns the 155 class. Kenflo couldn’t even finish Huerta(who imo is just a brawler). GSP ran the floor on him because when all skills are equal the stronger, heavier fighter will win. Bj will sit on the top of 155 for a long time.[/quote]

I’m not writing him off, anyone who writes him off is crazy IMO.

But, GSP didn’t just trounce BJ because he was bigger (although clearly that played a large role), he also had a very intelligent game plan to beat Penn. He was bigger and stronger in their first fight, yet Penn picked him apart in the first round with his striking. In the second fight GSP actually used some strategy and as a result got the better of Penn in the striking department.

If Dellagrotte is half the striking coach that he is cracked up to be (which I believe he is), he’ll have studied what GSP did in that fight and come up with a game plan to beat Penn on the feet (because I honestly don’t see Florian beating Penn on the ground).

The interesting thing will be what game plan Penn comes in with. If it’s just “I’m better than him, I’ll just rely on skill” and Florian comes in with a good game plan, then I think Penn is gonna lose the belt. If he smartens up and comes in with a strategy designed specifically to beat Florian, then whoever can better apply their strategy will win.

But seriously, GSP’s gameplan revolved around his ability to press BJ to the cage and hold him there, then required him to take BJ down later in the fight. All well and good and it worked, but Kenny can’t rely on that idea because he simply doesn’t have the physical tools.

He will have to engage BJ in the standup somehow, but it won’t work for him on the outside. BJ has good defense for kicks and his jab is good enough to keep Florian on the receiving end of some serious offense. If K-flo decides to come inside, he risks getting taken down which isn’t that great of a position either.

I think in order for Florian to win this, he’ll have to do it from inside the clinch early in the fight and hope that BJ tires before he figures out a way to beat him.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
But seriously, GSP’s gameplan revolved around his ability to press BJ to the cage and hold him there, then required him to take BJ down later in the fight. All well and good and it worked, but Kenny can’t rely on that idea because he simply doesn’t have the physical tools.
[/quote]

Yes, that was part of his strategy. Not the part I was referring to though.

[quote]
He will have to engage BJ in the standup somehow, but it won’t work for him on the outside. BJ has good defense for kicks and his jab is good enough to keep Florian on the receiving end of some serious offense. If K-flo decides to come inside, he risks getting taken down which isn’t that great of a position either.

I think in order for Florian to win this, he’ll have to do it from inside the clinch early in the fight and hope that BJ tires before he figures out a way to beat him.[/quote]

As GSP mentioned in the post fight interview, BJ has great reactions, fast hands and is a very good counter puncher. He used these attributes to beat GSP to the punch numerous times in their first fight.

So, GSP game planned (whether he realized it or not) how to beat a good counter puncher with faster reaction time.

The second time around he used lots of feints, doubling and trippling up his jab, and going to the body first instead of the head (as BJ is great at moving his head to avoid punches, but generally tries to stay in the pocket and counter punch, leaving his body open).

The result was that he greatly slowed down Penn’s reaction time (you can’t change someone’s muscle fiber ratio or the speed with which they can throw strikes, but you can slow down their mind, which in turn slows down their strikes) and was able to land his strikes while pretty much completely nullifying Penn’s striking skills.

That’s the type of strategy that I’m talking about. Again though I don’t know how knowledgeable Dellagrotte is about fight strategy, so we’ll have to see if Florian actually understands this and utilizes it.

GSP’s feints were truly only effective because BJ was so worried about the takedown. GSP only went to the body after he had pressed BJ to the cage and had him worried about the takedowns. He won’t be as concerned with Florian’s. I just don’t think the strategy of being on the outside of BJ will work for Kenny.

Yea Kenny has said himself he is not GSP and that he will have to utilize a different game-plan. That doesn’t mean it won’t be an effective one, it will just have to a different one.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
GSP’s feints were truly only effective because BJ was so worried about the takedown. GSP only went to the body after he had pressed BJ to the cage and had him worried about the takedowns. He won’t be as concerned with Florian’s. I just don’t think the strategy of being on the outside of BJ will work for Kenny.[/quote]

True, BJ was worried about the takedown.

But, using “attack by drawing” (feints, fakes and broken rhythm to draw your opponent’s counter attack) is one of the most effective methods of fighting someone who is faster than you and is a good counter striker. This works regardless of whether takedowns are a threat or not. If Florian uses this strategy effectively, he will mess up BJ’s timing just as well as GSP did.

this is gonna be a good fight. i’d like to see Florian win, but i don’t see him being phsycially powerful enough to stomp BJ.

BJ’s never really been knocked out, although GSP beat him around pretty damn good. Florian’s not gonna knock him out or take him down. and Florian has relied on cuts as a way to win, which isn’t going to get him a title. i think both have comparable levels of BJJ, but again, i think BJ size and strngth is going to be the factor on the ground.

Floian’s big advantage is going to be his footwork, which really looked good at his last fight.

GSP said that he’s going to do all that he can to help Kenny win this fight. My guess is that GSP’s S & C coach Chaimberg my help Kenny get prepared physically… he is renowned for getting fighters stronger and faster without adding too much size.

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
striking- Kenny is good, but i’ll take BJ’s boxing … BJ

clinch- Kenny has good knees, but he will not be able to take BJ down. Kenny’s td defense isn’t that great so going to give it to BJ

bjj … BJ

conditioning… Kenny by a long shot. The guy never gasses.

5 round fight definitely helps Kenny’s chances, but I just see Penn winning the fight wherever it goes. They are both undersized technique guys, and BJ is more skilled.[/quote]

THIS

[quote]GumsMagoo wrote:
GSP said that he’s going to do all that he can to help Kenny win this fight. My guess is that GSP’s S & C coach Chaimberg my help Kenny get prepared physically… he is renowned for getting fighters stronger and faster without adding too much size.[/quote]

That’ll be interesting. But I honestly don’t think Florian is going to be manhandling Penn no matter who his strength and conditioning coach is.

If he wins it’s either gonna be on points, or via referee stoppage due to a cut (from an elbow). I don’t think he’s got the power to KO BJ, and I really don’t see him submitting him either (even in later rounds if BJ gases).

Kenny trains with Kevin Kearns and how is John Chaimberg known for getting fighters stronger without getting bigger GSP got bigger. If Kenny wins i cant see him holding the belt Diego, Maynard, Sherk, Griffin, I think can all beat Kenny.

As has been mentioned before, GSP had a very specific game plan for taking BJ out which basically came down to wearing out his already-small deltoids so that he wasn’t as capable on the ground as usual. Before that fight I used to always comment “I wonder what would happen if BJ ran up against someone who fights as smart as he does.”

In all of the matches I’ve ever seen with him, although he does have great technique, it’s more his patience and smart fighting that pays off.

I’m not sure whether or not the beating from GSP will lower his confidence, but if K-flo is just your average fighter in the mental department, BJ will still take him.