Birdy Need a New Shoulder Routine

theBird 2011-08-20 01:09:43 UTC #1

Hi T-Nationers!!

Well Ive just recently been getting into working out my shoulders, even giving them a day of their own. Problem is that I have been doing the same routine for almost 6 weeks now and I like to change my lifts every 6 weeks or so.
At the moment my routine consists of standing military presses(5x5), standing overhead dB pres(3x8), and lateral raises(3x10).

So my question is; what is another routine/different exercises I can do for my shoulder day??

bird-style.

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Blaze_108 2011-08-20 01:28:19 UTC #2

Seated db press 4x8
Seated underhand BB/smith press 3x10 (these are only done to slightly above head level)
Leaning laterals (laterals holding onto something with one hand and leaning away) 3x12
Rear delt raises on inc bench 3x25
Cable (or machine if you have access) Lateral raise FST-7 (7x10)
Wolfe Face pulls 3x10

This is if you like high volume though, pretty much hits each head of the delt twice. Did it for a couple months and really enjoyed it.

overstand 2011-08-20 01:29:45 UTC #3

Sit down and use more weight. If you're trying to work your shoulders, there's no reason to do them standing.

And there's no way you're hitting a plateau after only 6 weeks. Stick with it and keep upping the weight.

maraudermeat 2011-08-20 02:43:54 UTC #4

why wouldn't one be working the shoulders while standing up?? i rarely see anyone doing a seated overhead press without leaning back and bringing the chest into the movement. standing forces you to stay upright and place most of the stress on the shoulders. There's also the added advantage of working all the stabalizer muscles while standing.

I have nothing against seated over head pressing but i feel that standing is superior to seated for many reasons.

overstand 2011-08-20 03:00:37 UTC #5

You can't go nearly as heavy standing up. As for the chest issue, you can say the exact same thing about standing; most heavy standing presses turn into a push press using the legs.

This is the bodybuilding forum and the goal is to put maximum stress on the shoulders, sitting will build better shoulders than standing 10 times out of 10.

LiquidMercury 2011-08-20 03:09:05 UTC #6

overstand wrote:

maraudermeat wrote:

overstand wrote:
Sit down and use more weight. If you're trying to work your shoulders, there's no reason to do them standing.

And there's no way you're hitting a plateau after only 6 weeks. Stick with it and keep upping the weight.

why wouldn't one be working the shoulders while standing up?? i rarely see anyone doing a seated overhead press without leaning back and bringing the chest into the movement. standing forces you to stay upright and place most of the stress on the shoulders. There's also the added advantage of working all the stabalizer muscles while standing.

I have nothing against seated over head pressing but i feel that standing is superior to seated for many reasons.

You can't go nearly as heavy standing up. As for the chest issue, you can say the exact same thing about standing; most heavy standing presses turn into a push press using the legs.

This is the bodybuilding forum and the goal is to put maximum stress on the shoulders, sitting will build better shoulders than standing 10 times out of 10.

Very rarely does standing MP turn into a push press unless you just don't have a clue what you're doing (see most high school kids). It's not hard to push heavy weight and not push press. Considering meat has competed in bodybuilding, I'd say he knows a thing or two. Many olympic lifters would absolutely disagree with you about big shoulders being built seated as well I imagine.

overstand 2011-08-20 03:19:17 UTC #7

LiquidMercury wrote:

overstand wrote:

maraudermeat wrote:

overstand wrote:
Sit down and use more weight. If you're trying to work your shoulders, there's no reason to do them standing.

And there's no way you're hitting a plateau after only 6 weeks. Stick with it and keep upping the weight.

why wouldn't one be working the shoulders while standing up?? i rarely see anyone doing a seated overhead press without leaning back and bringing the chest into the movement. standing forces you to stay upright and place most of the stress on the shoulders. There's also the added advantage of working all the stabalizer muscles while standing.

I have nothing against seated over head pressing but i feel that standing is superior to seated for many reasons.

You can't go nearly as heavy standing up. As for the chest issue, you can say the exact same thing about standing; most heavy standing presses turn into a push press using the legs.

This is the bodybuilding forum and the goal is to put maximum stress on the shoulders, sitting will build better shoulders than standing 10 times out of 10.

Very rarely does standing MP turn into a push press unless you just don't have a clue what you're doing (see most high school kids). It's not hard to push heavy weight and not push press. Considering meat has competed in bodybuilding, I'd say he knows a thing or two. Many olympic lifters would absolutely disagree with you about big shoulders being built seated as well I imagine.

I never said standing press won't build your shoulders, I said it's inferior to seated (for building your shoulders). My point about push press was to counter what maraudermeat said about most guys using chest in their seated press. You can "cheat" standing or seated.

Unless you are disputing the fact that you can lift far heavier weights while seated, I think it's pretty obvious that sitting puts more stress on the shoulders than standing.

You can also build your shoulders doing standing presses on a bosu ball. Does that make it optimal? No.

maraudermeat 2011-08-20 03:30:22 UTC #8

overstand wrote:

maraudermeat wrote:

overstand wrote:
Sit down and use more weight. If you're trying to work your shoulders, there's no reason to do them standing.

And there's no way you're hitting a plateau after only 6 weeks. Stick with it and keep upping the weight.

why wouldn't one be working the shoulders while standing up?? i rarely see anyone doing a seated overhead press without leaning back and bringing the chest into the movement. standing forces you to stay upright and place most of the stress on the shoulders. There's also the added advantage of working all the stabalizer muscles while standing.

I have nothing against seated over head pressing but i feel that standing is superior to seated for many reasons.

You can't go nearly as heavy standing up. As for the chest issue, you can say the exact same thing about standing; most heavy standing presses turn into a push press using the legs.

This is the bodybuilding forum and the goal is to put maximum stress on the shoulders, sitting will build better shoulders than standing 10 times out of 10.

i'm fully aware that this is the bodybuilding forum. I still don't get how you can go heavier seated. you are using the same muscles standing or seated. Most heavy standing presses do not turn into push presses. simply lock the knees and no push press. how does a push press activate the chest over a regular standing military press?

10 out of 10 huh... good to know.

also, is heaiver weights how you develop maximal size?

overstand 2011-08-20 03:44:52 UTC #9

maraudermeat wrote:

overstand wrote:

maraudermeat wrote:

overstand wrote:
Sit down and use more weight. If you're trying to work your shoulders, there's no reason to do them standing.

And there's no way you're hitting a plateau after only 6 weeks. Stick with it and keep upping the weight.

why wouldn't one be working the shoulders while standing up?? i rarely see anyone doing a seated overhead press without leaning back and bringing the chest into the movement. standing forces you to stay upright and place most of the stress on the shoulders. There's also the added advantage of working all the stabalizer muscles while standing.

I have nothing against seated over head pressing but i feel that standing is superior to seated for many reasons.

You can't go nearly as heavy standing up. As for the chest issue, you can say the exact same thing about standing; most heavy standing presses turn into a push press using the legs.

This is the bodybuilding forum and the goal is to put maximum stress on the shoulders, sitting will build better shoulders than standing 10 times out of 10.

i'm fully aware that this is the bodybuilding forum. I still don't get how you can go heavier seated. you are using the same muscles standing or seated. Most heavy standing presses do not turn into push presses. simply lock the knees and no push press. how does a push press activate the chest over a regular standing military press?

10 out of 10 huh... good to know.

also, is heaiver weights how you develop maximal size?

I'm not sure how you got that out of what I wrote?

What I'm trying to say is that I agree with you that many guys arch their backs too much doing a seated press and it turns into a pseudo incline. My point was "cheating" is not exclusive to the seated press, you can "cheat" while standing by using your legs.

If both movements are done with proper form, you can use heavier weight sitting down. There's no stabilization involved, no balance required, and most importantly your back is supported by the bench.

I could do military presses on a bosu ball and work on my shoulders, balance and core. That doesn't make it the best exercise for building my shoulders.

Does this make sense?

Maiden3_16 2011-08-20 04:49:53 UTC #10

ya I agree. OP I dont get what is so magical about six weeks. Stick with a program with more volume than you are doing now (such as the one gluteusmaximus outlined) and do shoulders on their own day if you really want to bring them up. If you feel you need to switch things up once in awhile, switch up the number of reps or sets.

Edit: the program blaze outlined, damn your avi's look the same or i am more drunk than i thought

GluteusGigantis 2011-08-20 05:16:14 UTC #11

^ shouldn't post when drunk LOL

theBird 2011-08-20 06:04:52 UTC #12

Thanks kids.
I just like to change things up every 6-8 weeks or else things get a bit boring and stale. I usually start to plateau my weight at about week 8. So thats when I like to change things up a bit, and then ofcourse revisit the other lift after Ive had a bit of a break from it and see if I can push it a bit heavier than last time. Does that make sense?

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Vejne 2011-08-20 06:24:30 UTC #13

Standing is better IMHO. Why? Strict form maintaned throughout the set. Yet, when fatigue kicks in, you can still squeeze out an extra rep or two with using a slight leg drive.

Easier to unrack-rerack the weight, too. :o) Oh, and after standing OHP you can still do Smith BTN presses with wide grip if you're really into punishing the shoulders.

(prhaps it's just me, but I've found that while standing, you unconciously keep your core tight, while seated lot of people just lean back too much, extend their lumbar spine and place a lot of stress on their lower back..)

SteelyD 2011-08-20 14:04:33 UTC #14

Interesting.

I've been doing the same thing, more or less, for a few years and progressing in lifts and weight. I consider a plateau or stall when a particular lift of mine isn't moving over several weeks.

At that point I consider if all my lifts are stalled or just a particular lift. At that point some introspection takes place-- am I being lazy about that lift? Is it diet? Attitude?

Then, I make an adjustment. Maybe back off and do higher reps, or more volume in general, or less. Maybe change a grip. Maybe stricter form for the lift. Maybe looser form. Maybe just change my attitiude and attack that lift. Maybe train that bodypart more frequently.

Rarely, if ever, do I tank a whole routine because I think I hit a "plateau".

Changing up every 6-8 weeks? That almost seems ridiculous to me. I would barely even be able to tell if something was working in that timeframe, let alone make the decision that it's "stale".

burp fart

theBird 2011-08-20 16:13:54 UTC #15

You make a good point SteelyD. Maybe Im just trying to progress way to fast.
I will continue with my current routine, but I will implement the advice my fellow t-nationers have given to me.

Everyday Im shuffling.

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dannyrat 2011-08-20 17:36:04 UTC #16

Do you say tweet in life? Is this a superhero persona you are assuming, or a personality disorder where you are a man-bird? The gimmick undermines credible things you write

There are numerous ideas about shoulder training on this site, it seems recently that John Meadows' shoulder training ideas fit the bill for you as 'fresh' and 'effective' if other people's reports are to be accepted.

Ct_Rockula 2011-08-20 17:42:36 UTC #17

Six weeks?

Maiden3_16 2011-08-20 19:11:25 UTC #18

six weeks, two weeks, you get the idea.

theBird 2011-08-21 00:31:02 UTC #19

dannyrat- I see myself as more of a superhero, although its part of my personality aswell. Im sworn to protect those who fear me. I only tweet on particular occasions, such as when scorring a goal in soccer, completing a new pb in a lift, or after finishing a large nutritious meal. I also tweet when giving people advice or when Im saying goodbye to friends.
Thanks for the referral to those John Meadows articles. I will study them with intent.

Ct Rockula- Yes, 6 weeks. Although now I realise that 6 weeks is not long enough. Im not sure where I got that idea from. I think I assumed 6-8 weeks was the magic number as the PT I see once a week, likes to change my program for that day every 6-8 weeks.

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SteelyD 2011-08-21 13:08:44 UTC #20

LOL!