T Nation

Biotest Supps for Novices?

Lets play “money not a concern,” for a moment. With summer here, I’m willing to take the brakes off my spending (yay college stipend) and have fun with some real supps. Lifting a 3-day split back to back every week, I’ll definitely have enough volume for growth. What I want to get right (right as possible, atleast) are supps.

Biotest offers a ridiculous arsenal of wonderful looking stuff - my question boils down to what is right for a novice like myself? Are tubs of Anaconda too posh? Grow! too simple? I’m not even entirely sure how many different things I should stock up on - just a protein powder seems too simplistic, so I know I’ll definitely be in for atleast that and some Flameout. Something along the lines of SURGE Recovery is also on my “ideas” list.

Any input would be awesome, sorry if I’m too dumb to grasp the individual applications of all of BTs stuff.

Superfood and Flameout for sure.

Even if you’re going to bust your ass and make the most of the Ananconda Protocol, you still need the rest of your daily diet to be taken care of. For this reason alone, the first item I ALWAYS recommend is Metabolic Drive. It’s just too well thought out, and tasty of a protein powder to choose any other brand (I’ve been downing this stuff for about 10 years now, since before it’s name was changed -lol). Works great mixed with oatmeal and peanut butter for breakfast, works great as a beverage with a regular meal, works great as a pre-bed protein fix. Yes, I love the effects of the CHY and beta alanine while I workout, but I’m sure if I was undereating all day, and not getting enough protein to actually build muscle, I’d be shortchanging myself quite a bit.

S

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Even if you’re going to bust your ass and make the most of the Ananconda Protocol, you still need the rest of your daily diet to be taken care of. For this reason alone, the first item I ALWAYS recommend is Metabolic Drive. It’s just too well thought out, and tasty of a protein powder to choose any other brand (I’ve been downing this stuff for about 10 years now, since before it’s name was changed -lol). Works great mixed with oatmeal and peanut butter for breakfast, works great as a beverage with a regular meal, works great as a pre-bed protein fix. Yes, I love the effects of the CHY and beta alanine while I workout, but I’m sure if I was undereating all day, and not getting enough protein to actually build muscle, I’d be shortchanging myself quite a bit.

S[/quote]

This this this! I’m just pissed they’ve been “OUT OF STOCK” of the regular Metabolic Drive stuff for what seems like ages. I’m contemplating skipping out on the ANACONDA and just getting an asston of Metabolic Drive.

Edit: DURR I’m a moron. I didn’t realize that the serving sizes weren’t uniform on the Metabolic Drive tubs. So Stu, I ask you: should I wait for the Metabolic Drive Complete, or is Metabolic Drive Low-Carb fine for me? They have similar enough protein and fat, so what benefit/loss do I stand to take from the carbs?

[quote]CapnYousef wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Even if you’re going to bust your ass and make the most of the Ananconda Protocol, you still need the rest of your daily diet to be taken care of. For this reason alone, the first item I ALWAYS recommend is Metabolic Drive. It’s just too well thought out, and tasty of a protein powder to choose any other brand (I’ve been downing this stuff for about 10 years now, since before it’s name was changed -lol). Works great mixed with oatmeal and peanut butter for breakfast, works great as a beverage with a regular meal, works great as a pre-bed protein fix. Yes, I love the effects of the CHY and beta alanine while I workout, but I’m sure if I was undereating all day, and not getting enough protein to actually build muscle, I’d be shortchanging myself quite a bit.

S[/quote]

This this this! I’m just pissed they’ve been “OUT OF STOCK” of the regular Metabolic Drive stuff for what seems like ages. I’m contemplating skipping out on the ANACONDA and just getting an asston of Metabolic Drive.

Edit: DURR I’m a moron. I didn’t realize that the serving sizes weren’t uniform on the Metabolic Drive tubs. So Stu, I ask you: should I wait for the Metabolic Drive Complete, or is Metabolic Drive Low-Carb fine for me? They have similar enough protein and fat, so what benefit/loss do I stand to take from the carbs? [/quote]

If you are concerned about the carbs then stick with Metabolic Drive Low-Carb, if not then get Metabolic Drive Complete. Since Metabolic Drive Complete is out of stock why not stock up on the low-carb version with at least a 2 month supply and you can switch to Metabolic Drive Complete if you feel you need more calories.

With what you have described I would say my list would include,

Metabolic Drive Low-Carb
Flameout
Superfood
Surge Recovery
FINiBARs or Surge Workout Fuel (I think you might need it keep you going 6 days of lifting)
ZMA (I really think this helps me sleep better when my body is thrashed)

[quote]steelechris wrote:

[quote]CapnYousef wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Even if you’re going to bust your ass and make the most of the Ananconda Protocol, you still need the rest of your daily diet to be taken care of. For this reason alone, the first item I ALWAYS recommend is Metabolic Drive. It’s just too well thought out, and tasty of a protein powder to choose any other brand (I’ve been downing this stuff for about 10 years now, since before it’s name was changed -lol). Works great mixed with oatmeal and peanut butter for breakfast, works great as a beverage with a regular meal, works great as a pre-bed protein fix. Yes, I love the effects of the CHY and beta alanine while I workout, but I’m sure if I was undereating all day, and not getting enough protein to actually build muscle, I’d be shortchanging myself quite a bit.

S[/quote]

This this this! I’m just pissed they’ve been “OUT OF STOCK” of the regular Metabolic Drive stuff for what seems like ages. I’m contemplating skipping out on the ANACONDA and just getting an asston of Metabolic Drive.

Edit: DURR I’m a moron. I didn’t realize that the serving sizes weren’t uniform on the Metabolic Drive tubs. So Stu, I ask you: should I wait for the Metabolic Drive Complete, or is Metabolic Drive Low-Carb fine for me? They have similar enough protein and fat, so what benefit/loss do I stand to take from the carbs? [/quote]

If you are concerned about the carbs then stick with Metabolic Drive Low-Carb, if not then get Metabolic Drive Complete. Since Metabolic Drive Complete is out of stock why not stock up on the low-carb version with at least a 2 month supply and you can switch to Metabolic Drive Complete if you feel you need more calories.

With what you have described I would say my list would include,

Metabolic Drive Low-Carb
Flameout
Superfood
Surge Recovery
FINiBARs or Surge Workout Fuel (I think you might need it keep you going 6 days of lifting)
ZMA (I really think this helps me sleep better when my body is thrashed)
[/quote]

Your list legit hit pretty much everything I was thinking of.
My one question is as far as Surge Recovery and Surge Workout Fuel are concerned - you drink 20oz of Surge Workout Fuel 15m before and continue during your workout. right after, you do the Surge Recovery? seems simple enough, i’m just checking i’ve got that right. The ZMA is so inexpensive I say why the hell not, and I could see the Superfood filling any holes in my diet. I plan on eating everything in sight in true bulk fashion, but I also plan on hitting my real food bases as best as I can (I’d rather not feel like crap a week into this).

My subtotal is over $250.00, so I’d say Biotest made one hell of an investment in setting these forums up for us friendly meatheads. I’m still lurking around the shop for any last minute additions, but so far you guys have been great.

I’m itching to finalize my gym in this new house so I can start on this stuff, lol. Three months until college are going to be awesome.

[quote]CapnYousef wrote:
Your list legit hit pretty much everything I was thinking of.
My one question is as far as Surge Recovery and Surge Workout Fuel are concerned - you drink 20oz of Surge Workout Fuel 15m before and continue during your workout. right after, you do the Surge Recovery? seems simple enough, i’m just checking i’ve got that right. The ZMA is so inexpensive I say why the hell not, and I could see the Superfood filling any holes in my diet. I plan on eating everything in sight in true bulk fashion, but I also plan on hitting my real food bases as best as I can (I’d rather not feel like crap a week into this).
[/quote]

If I remember correctly, it’s Surge Workout Fuel -30 and start Surge Recovery -10 and sipped through the workout. I have done Surge Recovery post workout and before/during. Before/during, in my opinion, is the better option.

That said, if money is really not an option, and your digestive track will handle it, I would suggest the ANACONDA Protocol One (AP1).

I am an huge fan of Surge Recovery. I’ve added MAG-10 to it (well, separate bottle with flavoring - alternating sips) and I noticed some improvement. I was pretty happy with this. Then the ANACONDA special and free FINiBARs lead to a FINiBAR/2 scoop ANACONDA/1 scoop MAG-10 stack, and even though I am having a bit trouble digesting it all (I think it is the creatine - issues in past), I am a big fan.

It just seems to me that in putting the ANACONDA Protocol 1 together they did a lot of the nutrition work for you. If you plan on lifting as much as you say, then go for it.

My ONLY beef with the ANACONDA Protocol is exactly the digestive thing - I can handle digestion fine, its just the sheer volume of the stuff. I can already see myself being a sloshbucket after only half of the stuff. Bear in mind, I’m not the normal 200lber around here. On a good week, I walk around at 145lb. Looking to be above 160 by the time summer is up, however.

As to the Metabolic Drive,… I’ve made use of both over the years, but USUALLY, I get the Metabolic Drive Low-Carb simply so that I can have more control over my carb intake. If I want carbs with a feeding, I’ll add them in (usually Oatmeal, or Ezekial Bread), but if I don’t, I just use the Metabolic Drive by itself (sometimes with some nuts or Almond Butter).

S

[quote]CapnYousef wrote:
My ONLY beef with the ANACONDA Protocol is exactly the digestive thing - I can handle digestion fine, its just the sheer volume of the stuff. I can already see myself being a sloshbucket after only half of the stuff. Bear in mind, I’m not the normal 200lber around here. On a good week, I walk around at 145lb. Looking to be above 160 by the time summer is up, however.[/quote]

You could give yourself some time to adjust - not do full doses day one. You might really like the results at a lower dose and get to stretch it out longer.

Bear in mind I hate eating and would do the ANACONDA Protocol 1 in a heart beat if I could afford it. The idea of getting that many quality calories in such a short window of time is attractive.

Oh wow, I just noticed the pricetag - $320 for protocol 1 - which is great, but no Superfood, Flameout, or ZMA are in that. I’m all for blowing money, but I think my first run down the Biotest line will be with Metabolic Drive and Surge. Next time around, when I’m a big less green, I’ll deff. hit up the ANACONDA.

Man, I feel like a fatass in a candystore.

Edit: speaking of candy, everyone is raving about ZOMG THIS TASTES AMAZING. I’m used to my stuff tasting like cement/terrible/death, so since I’m (at present) getting 2 tubs of Metabolic Drive, which flavors should I opt for? I’m looking at strawberry and banana just because I’ve been getting chocolate for the last year and a half of my life and vanilla sounds unexciting.

Also, which liquid for the surge?

At your level I’d buy protein and make sure I was eating all the right foods. Other supps at this point seem unnecessary.

I would recommend you get at least 1 chocolate or vanilla Metabolic Drive, it has a much wider range of applications such as what Stu mentioned above. Strawberry and banana I hear are very selective, either you like them or you don’t, I’m not partial to any type of synthetic “banana” flavoring but I did enjoy the strawberry. I usually don’t like vanilla either but I really enjoy the Metabolic Drive vanilla.

As for the liquid, I think my favorite is orange only because I can it to taste like Gatorade, although I’m mixing it with 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel, 1 scoop MAG-10, 1 scoop ANACONDA, and the I’ve noticed a difference in taste when I do a MAG-10 only pulse. I’d have to say the Surge Workout Fuel adds a sweetness to it initially so I would stick with the orange or if you really like grape go with that. Berry is the sweetest of the flavors to me, and I really have to remember not to put too much in as it goes from perfect to too sweet with a few extra drops.

I’d have to say if you consider a protocol in the future I run a modified protocol 2 with the addition of 1 FINiBAR preworkout and it works great for me. Protocol 2 + additional MAG-10 + 4 FINiBAR packs and you can run 1 scoop of each Surge Workout Fuel, ANACONDA, MAG-10 with the FINiBAR preworkout and it will last 48 workouts with a few pulses left over. The double dose of ANACONDA proved to be too much on my stomach so I backed off to here and still notice great results. Food for thought in the future given the stats you listed above, a deviation from the protocol might be in order to test your response to the supplements if you are interested down the line.

So what does the final list look like?

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
At your level I’d buy protein and make sure I was eating all the right foods. Other supps at this point seem unnecessary.[/quote]

I absolutely and totally agree with you, thats my year-round plan. Necessary is 9 months of the year at this point, now I’m just being superfluous. Compounded with good eating habits, I don’t see how this could impede growth - it could very well be a waste of money, but relative to other splurges I’ve made in life I don’t stand to lose too much.

Currently my list is:

1 Surge Workout Fuel
1 Superfood
1 bottle Flameout
2 tubs Surge Recovery (original flavor)
1 tub Metabolic Drive Strawberry
1 tub Metabolic Drive undecided flavour
and 1 bottle ZMA

I’ll have plenty of heads-up time in the event I want to add more tubs/bottles of anything listed, so at this point I’m experimented. Subtotal is $270.

I’m a novice, too, Capn, but I’ll throw in what I do just for the info.

I always have Flameout on hand.

For PWO stuff, I have a full serving (2 scoops) of SWF about 30min. pre-workout. I have a full serving of Surge Recovery (two scoops) and half a serving of SWF (one scoop) during the workout. I find the Raspberry flavor to be the best during the workout. It masks the flavor of the SWF and compliments the berry liquid flavoring. I’d love to use Anaconda and some of the other fancy stuff, but seriously, I’m just not that cool yet. So I save the money for when I am.

I have been using Alpha-GPC recently. I guess it’s more of an advanced supp, but I’ve found that it’s helping my mind-muscle connection, which had been an issue in the past. I like it so far.

I just added the Elitepro Mineral Support to my arsenal, and I’m interested to see how it affects me.

I’ve also just added the creatine mono. Interested in its effects as well.

Anyway, my two cents. I live in Japan, so importing this stuff is a hassle. I buy my protein powder locally as it’s just not cost effective to ship (although I’d love to try Metabolic Drive), and some of the others I’d like to have on a regular basis (Superfood, REZ-V) are out of my budget range due to the shipping costs, but what can you do, eh?

[quote]steelechris wrote:
The double dose of ANACONDA proved to be too much on my stomach so I backed off to here and still notice great results.
[/quote]

Did you cut back on the water? If so, how much?

I am finding I can drink all the water but my stomach does not like it about ah hour later. So I am still experimenting.

[quote]CapnYousef wrote:
Currently my list is:

1 Surge Workout Fuel
1 Superfood
1 bottle Flameout
2 tubs Surge Recovery (original flavor)
1 tub Metabolic Drive Strawberry
1 tub Metabolic Drive undecided flavour
and 1 bottle ZMA

[/quote]

Looks like a good list. Some people find ZMA keep them up, if so, you can take it in the morning.

Vanilla and chocolate are easiest to mix into other foods.

Let us know your final stack and results.

[quote]CapnYousef wrote:
Also, which liquid for the Surge?[/quote]
I wanted to address this first, since it’s the most important issue here.

Orange. The answer is always… orange.

On the most basic level, your supplementation plan should coordinate with, and supplement, your daily whole food nutrition. So make sure you’re getting the calories, and protein, you need every day. Metabolic Drive will be the most convenient way to make sure you’re hitting your protein requirements.

After that, tackle workout nutrition. Looks like you might’ve made up your mind with the Surge Recovery and Surge Workout Fuel, which is a solid plan. I’d definitely take advantage of double dosing the Surge Recovery pre- and during training.

Just to throw this out there, if the volume of liquid is what’s keeping you away from the Anaconda Protocol, you could consider the Anaconda Protocol 2 plus FINiBARs pre-workout.

I’d definitely go for at least one vanilla (and no, it isn’t “unexciting”. It’s got a creamy texture and smooth taste). It’ll make a better base ingredient for the high-calorie shakes I expect you to be making to put on the size you’re after. Though strawberry was good, a little sweeter than I expected. And banana had a pretty good, not-overpowering banana-ness to it (and was killer with a scoop of chocolate).

[quote]CapnYousef wrote:
My ONLY beef with the ANACONDA Protocol is exactly the digestive thing - I can handle digestion fine, its just the sheer volume of the stuff. I can already see myself being a sloshbucket after only half of the stuff. Bear in mind, I’m not the normal 200lber around here. On a good week, I walk around at 145lb. Looking to be above 160 by the time summer is up, however.[/quote]

Not that you’re necessarily ready for the Anaconda Protocol, but it should be obvious that one your size should lessen the serving size.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]CapnYousef wrote:
Also, which liquid for the Surge?[/quote]
I wanted to address this first, since it’s the most important issue here.

Orange. The answer is always… orange.

On the most basic level, your supplementation plan should coordinate with, and supplement, your daily whole food nutrition. So make sure you’re getting the calories, and protein, you need every day. Metabolic Drive will be the most convenient way to make sure you’re hitting your protein requirements.

After that, tackle workout nutrition. Looks like you might’ve made up your mind with the Surge Recovery and Surge Workout Fuel, which is a solid plan. I’d definitely take advantage of double dosing the Surge Recovery pre- and during training.

Just to throw this out there, if the volume of liquid is what’s keeping you away from the Anaconda Protocol, you could consider the Anaconda Protocol 2 plus FINiBARs pre-workout.

I’d definitely go for at least one vanilla (and no, it isn’t “unexciting”. It’s got a creamy texture and smooth taste). It’ll make a better base ingredient for the high-calorie shakes I expect you to be making to put on the size you’re after. Though strawberry was good, a little sweeter than I expected. And banana had a pretty good, not-overpowering banana-ness to it (and was killer with a scoop of chocolate).
[/quote]

I like your thinking on the shake issue, Mr. Colucci. Now, my only question is you mention double-dosing surge pre-and-during workout, which is awesome. My question is where does the Surge Workout Fuel fall, then? Pre-post? (if that made sense)