Biology of Race

Did not own slaves but did 100% participate (and make good money) in the slave trade via ports in Boston, Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Philadelphia, New York, Rhode Island.

Brown and Georgetown university were built by proceeds from the slave trade, in addition to multiple other Ivy league universities who have been linked to it.

It’s universal.

In terms of Jim Crow for reference:

It is fair to say the North fought against slavery, but solely to preserve the Union as Lincoln himself stated I don’t know if you can call that noble but we truly appreciate you :slightly_smiling_face:

Shit out of luck.

You don’t have to convince me. I’m asking ED who considers race a sociocultural thing how do we determine if a person is eligible for reparations

Why are African Americans only asking for an apology from whites and not those who initially enslaved your ancestors in Africa? Or the owners of the boats who brought you over (often jews)

Now why in the world would you drag me into this thread? Seriously, out of all the people on this site you choose to use my name to make your point. Well here’s some news for you, I happen to employ a myriad of all sorts of races in my various business ventures including plenty of African Americans. I treat them all equally well as there is no reason not to. All human beings are deserving of respect and dignity. I have never one time been sued for discrimination as I do not discriminate and I make sure that my upper management does not discriminate. Nor has my treatment of minorities ever been called into question! I have always believed that discriminating based on someone’s race, gender or sexual orientation is a disgusting act of the cowardly.

Furthermore, just for your edification, before the Clinton Family leave Act was signed in 1993 I was giving my female employees PAID leave to have a child, or any employee paid leave to take care of a sick loved one. The 1993 act as you recall only goes as far as guaranteeing that person a job when they return to work…I went and still go…further than that. I do it because it’s not just smart business which builds loyalty among my employees, but I have always felt that it was the right thing to do. I believe that is one of the reasons that I have been successful through the years.

So the next time you decide to go on a rant about white people only getting bent out of shape if a white person’s rights are taken away DON’T USE MY NAME as an example!

Thank you,

ZEB

Irrelevant to the argument but I will humor you.

If “Jews” were involved in the slave trade they wouldn’t be any different fron “White” folks coming from a foreign country to send folks to another foreign country.

Lmao. Don’t get so worked up, I just wanted to poke fun at you, but I understand why you may feel upset. Please accept my sincerest apologies.

Yes, well ordinarily I wouldn’t mind a good joke but the context is what bothered me. Simply because I am a conservative republican you assume that I would only react if someone’s rights were challenged who was white. That is called stereotyping my friend.

Anyway…no hard feelings and apology accepted. In fact, you are one of my favorite opposition posters.

Peace.

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Fair enough.
You never answered my question a while back what business you are in…I can understand if you would rather not to share…but I am curious!

This is actually a very legitimate question imo. I’m as confused on how we’d practically determine this widescale as I am with determining widescale races in general.

@EyeDentist does a prevailing theory already exist?

I don’t think it’s all that controversial - the middle class generally has declined, the black middle class included. And that’s my point - there are many factors impacting standards of living, wealth gaps, etc., even as race-relations have been improving.[quote=“EyeDentist, post:1403, topic:228119”]
Who is claiming that it is “driven by racial animus”?
[/quote]

Reparations supporters? Isn’t that the point of reparations?[quote=“EyeDentist, post:1403, topic:228119”]
The notion of a class-action lawsuit was metaphorical. Reparations would not be adjudicated in that manner, so the standards you mention would not apply.
[/quote]

No, not in the technical sense, which is why I made reference to class-action “principles” - but importantly, those standards are not there simply for the sake of being there, they are there to reinforce certain elements of fairness due if people are at risk of being liable for something. And I think those principles certainly apply to any consideration of reparations.[quote=“EyeDentist, post:1403, topic:228119”]
Respectfully, if you were the one who was suffering (along with your children) economic hardship because of the wealth gap, I don’t think you’d dismiss the value of reparations on the grounds that ‘it wouldn’t make people discriminate less.’
[/quote]

That may be so, but reparations are part of public policy, and as such we need to consider what the best solution is for the public problems we face. What is the value in making a number of people happy with a cash payment if it inflames racial discord and resentment and sets the country back in terms of race relations? We should cut off our noses off to spite our face?

I have no doubt a great many, if not all, black Americans would like both the money and what it symbolizes - a formal apology backed by something other than words. I get that. But the cost is higher than the benefit.

When it comes to race in America and public policy, I always start (and end) with the fundamental question: will the policy tend to move America closer to a colorblind, discrimination-free country? If the answer is No, or Probably Not, I don’t think we should entertain it.

I think reparations is a No. I think it makes things worse, and instead of promoting healing and better understanding, it promotes division, reignited blame, and re-opens a bunch of wounds that have already healed. We’ve made tremendous progress on race, and reparations would undermine that progress with new and fresh rounds of racial mistrust.

I’ll quote myself here: think about what a real approach to reparations looks like. It would be public policy - a law - so it would have to go through Congress and the President to actually get done. What happens there? What if the bill doesn’t make it our of committee? What if it does but is voted down? Even after extended discussion, if the bill doesn’t pass, how does that make everyone feel? Better? Will the black community say “well, at least we got a fair hearing, but it didn’t work out, so onward and upward” or will they be furious? Will it make them feel America is more racist than they ever though it was in this day and age?

What if it passed? How many otherwise racially-tolerant whites will feel slighted by being blamed for sins they didn’t commit and speak out against it? Would blacks see that opposition and simply discount it as racism that wasn’t apparent before? Who trusts each other now?

How many lawsuits will be filed challenging the bill as unconstitutional? (It’d be a race-based financial penalty or tax, and would subject to strict scrutiny.)

Does anyone think this scenario is a step-forward in race-relations?

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In the present context, it means ‘a substantive topic that would need to be addressed in a reparations debate.’

A narrowing of the wealth gap, which in turn will narrow the socioeconomic/quality-of-life gap. It would also be a statement that America is fully committed to making right on what has been called her ‘original sin.’

@MoreMuscle answered you well.

No matter how she ‘feels’ race-wise, Rachel Dolezal cannot point to a family history of socioeconomic disenfranchisement resulting in multigenerational poverty and its sequelae. That is the “prevailing theory” at work here.

So no, she doesn’t qualify for reparations.

I think we could factor out such global changes.

The point of reparations is to reduce the wealth gap stemming from slavery, Jim Crow, and other systemic, institutional forms of racial discrimination.

More grist for the mill.

Possibly. Worthy of debate.

I very much disagree with the notion that the ‘wounds have already healed.’ But again, a subject worthy of inclusion in a debate.

Between this assertion and your talk of ‘wounds already healed,’ I think you seriously underestimate the extant level of anger simmering in the black community.

“Racially tolerant” is an interesting turn of phrase. It sounds like they’re doing black folk a favor by putting up with them.

On this forum, probably not many besides me. But nationwide, many.

@EyeDentist under your worldview how do we determine who is the descendants of slaves? How do we check if Rachel Dolezel is the descendants of slaves?

Apologizing for a “sin” you didn’t commit to a group of people that weren’t alive to be offended by it is hollow and simply giving a group of people money isn’t going to fix any real or perceived socioeconomic/quality-of-life gap issues.

Lottery winners are a good example to turning to:

Or pro athletes:

https://www.si.com/vault/2009/03/23/105789480/how-and-why-athletes-go-broke?xid=huffpo#

This evidence compliments my point

It doesn’t, but whatever…

Lol I saw it and could only think of Satan twisting Jesus’s words to fit his narrative.

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Lol, right? I don’t even care anymore.

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I’m not so curious about her as I am with the rest of the population. There has to be a way to determine if you 1. Qualify for reparations, 2. Don’t qualify for reparations.