Bioidentical TRT Testimonials?

Some prefer Tiger Blood. Cut 50/50 with Tren Ace.

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It isn’t even economically feasible and there would be no added benefit.

how do you know if you have never tried it? but yea, the logistics of production would be tricky

Never heard this before. Are there any formulations derived from animals still? That seems so … retro.

I thought all test was created via yams n such today

Yea I thought it was interesting too. I found out listening to the Joe Rogan show and he mentioned that bioidentical T is undetectable for performance enhancing drug tests with athletes. It got me thinking… would it have a different type of effect on the body/mind? I have tried almost all testosterone products out there except this one and I know they have verry different, i guess you would say… , feels to them as they are absorbed at different rates and such. But I looked bioidentical T up and it is being advertised by medical clinics.

We are talking about a testosterone molecule here right?

The chemical composition would be the same, hence the term “bioidentical”.

apparently there is a difference when it comes to testing for performance enhancing drugs… if it is derrived from an animal.

I net it would really help if you could provide a definition of what bio identical T is.

I’d define it as testosterone in amount and kinetic as if it was produced by the body itself. Would be possible with complex nose spray or troche application scheduled.

Good thing @lordgains is posting. I will sit this one out.

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I’m going to sleep now, sorry man, also didn’t post anything valuable really haha

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Sleep. Yes!

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I know you don’t want the science but for those curious. Don’t believe everything you watch/read on the internet.

Brush up on carbon isotope ratios and commercial production of USP testosterone.

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Thanks, appreciate the candor.

Yes.

Very different concept than “bioidentical”. Testosterone from animal and plant origin would both be bioidentical.

Ah, yes. this is where I was confused. Ill check it out.

Very nice summary on the testing issue:

British Journal of Sports Medicine

Detection of testosterone administration based on the carbon isotope ratio profiling of endogenous steroids: international reference populations of professional soccer players

E Strahm, C Emery, […], and C Saudan

Additional article information

Abstract

Background and objectives:

The determination of the carbon isotope ratio in androgen metabolites has been previously shown to be a reliable, direct method to detect testosterone misuse in the context of antidoping testing. Here, the variability in the 13C/12C ratios in urinary steroids in a widely heterogeneous cohort of professional soccer players residing in different countries (Argentina, Italy, Japan, South Africa, Switzerland and Uganda) is examined.

Methods:

Carbon isotope ratios of selected androgens in urine specimens were determined using gas chromatography/combustion/isotope ratio mass spectrometry (GC-C-IRMS).

Results:

Urinary steroids in Italian and Swiss populations were found to be enriched in 13C relative to other groups, reflecting higher consumption of C3 plants in these two countries. Importantly, detection criteria based on the difference in the carbon isotope ratio of androsterone and pregnanediol for each population were found to be well below the established threshold value for positive cases.

Conclusions:

The results obtained with the tested diet groups highlight the importance of adapting the criteria if one wishes to increase the sensitivity of exogenous testosterone detection. In addition, confirmatory tests might be rendered more efficient by combining isotope ratio mass spectrometry with refined interpretation criteria for positivity and subject-based profiling of steroids.

Anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS), particularly testosterone, are commonly used by athletes to enhance sports performance. The extent of misuse of AAS by competing athletes is clearly shown by the statistics of the adverse analytical findings reported by accredited laboratories in the last few years. Moreover, the same hormones that are included in the list of prohibited substances published by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) are also misused by young people and non-competing amateurs.1 Chronic administration of AAS has been shown to produce endocrine, somatic and neuropsychiatric side effects. Psychological side effects are of particular concern because they induce violent behaviours with potentially serious consequences for the society at large.1

Testosterone doping cannot be detected by simply measuring the levels of endogenous hormones such as androgens in biological fluids. The variability in human metabolism of this compound is simply too large.2 In the antidoping field, evidence of testosterone administration relies on a confirmatory procedure that uses isotope ratio mass spectrometry (IRMS).3 A technical document established by WADA in 2004, stipulates that a urine sample must be analysed by IRMS to determine the carbon isotope ratios of androgens if the peak area ratio of testosterone/epitestosterone equivalent to the glucuronide is equal to or greater than 4.0 or if altered steroid profiles are determined.4 Endogenous testosterone is produced in the human body via cholesterol metabolism.5 6 Detection of testosterone doping relies on the general observation that endogenous testosterone has a different 13C content compared to hemisynthetic testosterone used in pharmaceutical preparations. Such detection is possible because the carbon atoms in steroid molecules originate primarily in atmospheric CO2, which is fixed through photosynthesis. The most important photosynthetic pathways used by plants are the so-called C3 and C4 pathways.7 8 Significant isotope fractionation occurs during photosynthetic carbon fixation, depending on the mode of CO2 fixation. Thus, the key enzymes that fix CO2 in C3 plants discriminate more strongly against 13CO2 than their analogues in C4 plants. As a result, the two types of plants differ by about 14‰ in the isotopic composition of their tissues. The natural abundance carbon isotopic ratio is expressed as a δ value relative to an international standard (Vienna Pee Dee Belemnite, VPDB; equation 1):

equation image

The practical outcome is the fact that the distribution of carbon isotopes in an animal reflects the relative abundance of food in the diet that originates directly or indirectly from C4 and C3 plants (either plants or animals that are lower in the food chain). Controlled diet studies have shown that the isotopic composition of the whole body of an animal is enriched by about 1‰ as a function of the isotopic composition of its diet.9

Although the diet composition of an athlete has a predominant influence on the carbon isotope ratio of the steroids excreted in urine, there have been no published comparisons of this diagnostic parameter in any cohort of elite athletes in a specific sports category. In this study, the range of the carbon isotope ratio of the steroids relevant to antidoping analysis was investigated in urine specimens obtained from top-level soccer player populations residing in six countries, namely Argentina, Italy, Japan, Republic of South Africa, Switzerland and Uganda. The determination of threshold values specific for a given diet and athlete metabolism is expected to significantly improve the detection of testosterone misuse by means of stable isotope methodology.

Your body however cannot tell the difference.

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Ehhh no, sorry to the guru Joe Rogan. You can tell exogenous test vs endogenous test through a few different methods.

“Bioidentical” is a marketing term used to sell programs

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Look, I love JRE - but he has genuinely shit advice for training, dieting, and AAS as well from what I’ve heard.

I remember him playing it dumb during an episode where the guest was a big TRT advocate; Rogan was on TRT, BPC-157, HGH, and about a dozen other WADA restricted substances at the time of that interview. Not like I give a damn about WADA, but it helps with scope.

Whether Bioidentical Test or Synthetic, if your TT is sitting at 2000 ng/dL, no one is believing that you’re natural.

Specifically to your question of noticing a difference? No clue, haven’t even heard of anyone messing with Test harvested from some pig or whatever they’d use for it… I’d avoid it unless you’ve got some smoking barrel evidence to support it’s claims.

However, probably not on the medal podium

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