I’m on 140mg of Testosterone Cypionate weekly for TRT. I have kids and am not interested in more. I have no problem with testicular atrophy (have it, just not an issue). I am blasting 125mg of Test prop EOD with .25g of anastrozole E3D and have no sides.
When my cycle ends, can I just go back to my weekly TRT dose and grapeseed extract, (my usual protocol on TRT) instead of the anastrozole, with no PCT, and live happily ever after?
Thanks![/quote]
Yes, indeed, you can. PCT is only needed for the purpose of restoring natural testosterone production; when good natural production isn’t a reasonable goal and TRT is expected to be needed post-cycle in any case, then the thing to do is to go straight to the TRT, no point to PCT.
And thank you for the honorific, but to be clear, no doctorate, I never submitted thesis due to going to work instead.
[quote]KountKoma wrote:
I’m really interested to hear opinions on the situations that require staying on. I assume this means professional bodybuilding?
As a guy in his mid 30’s that trains a significant amount of combat martial arts (for a living) I have had a very rough time in PCT. Gains have been hard to keep while off. I just feel like I am burning the candle at both ends and can’t do it all. I started a 250mg of Test per week protocol and planned on it being 8 weeks (per Bills reco in another thread) and if I was blown away I would keep on forever. Well…it has been fantastic. I can do everything I want (within reason) and feel great. Hard to walk away from that knowing I can blast and end up right there again. Am I bullshitting myself?[/quote]
if you don’t mind me asking, aare you a competitor or instructor? what kind of martial arts?
honestly, as long as you get regular check ups, i think you can stay on an “enhanced TRT” for a long time… that’s what i’m kicking around right now, as i’ve been trying to sort out some other health issues.
[/quote]
I am an instructor. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai and Wrestling. Now that it looks like I found my solution I will start looking for a doc once I change my insurance next year and get the proper regular testing.
[quote]KountKoma wrote:
I’m really interested to hear opinions on the situations that require staying on. I assume this means professional bodybuilding?[/quote]
It’s also not unusual among powerlifters to way to stay “on” continuously.
It’s interesting that you did so very well on such a low dose. It does happen sometimes: I’ve seen really dramatic changes on just 250 mg/week but only rarely. Might it be the case – it doesn’t have to be so, but would be relevant if so – that your free testosterone was somewhat low going into it, making the difference more dramatic?
Something you can look at if desired is seeing what degree of “supplementation” you can use that still keeps LH in a good range. For example, I’ve found I can use 100 mg/week Masteron and still keep good LH. It’s not my general practice but as experimentation, it worked well. LH testing is inexpensive.
[/quote]
I don’t have the bloodwork to support the low free T going in but it sure would make a lot of sense.
So the last part is a little over my head. Are you saying the 100 mg/wk Masteron could be run long term? Kind of pushing the limit of “supplementation” without being on a heavy cycle? Also, what other options would be a good fit and what is the criteria for choosing?
[quote]KountKoma wrote:
I’m really interested to hear opinions on the situations that require staying on. I assume this means professional bodybuilding?
As a guy in his mid 30’s that trains a significant amount of combat martial arts (for a living) I have had a very rough time in PCT. Gains have been hard to keep while off. I just feel like I am burning the candle at both ends and can’t do it all. I started a 250mg of Test per week protocol and planned on it being 8 weeks (per Bills reco in another thread) and if I was blown away I would keep on forever. Well…it has been fantastic. I can do everything I want (within reason) and feel great. Hard to walk away from that knowing I can blast and end up right there again. Am I bullshitting myself?[/quote]
if you don’t mind me asking, aare you a competitor or instructor? what kind of martial arts?
honestly, as long as you get regular check ups, i think you can stay on an “enhanced TRT” for a long time… that’s what i’m kicking around right now, as i’ve been trying to sort out some other health issues.
[/quote]
I am an instructor. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai and Wrestling. Now that it looks like I found my solution I will start looking for a doc once I change my insurance next year and get the proper regular testing.[/quote]
cool.
i’m a big MMA fan, and have dabbled in BJJ and MT, among other things…
do you do much lifting on your own, or are basically teaching all day? have you looked into hGH (or any of the GHRPs/MK-677)?
[quote]The Myth wrote:
So, post cycle, cruise before blasting after a reasonable time off cycle. And this supports the idea of shorter cycles on blast and cruise?[/quote]
The idea of shorter cycles is that for the same percentage of time “on” per year, for the same total amount of steroids used per year, better cumulative results are obtained with shorter cycles than longer ones due probably to the greater frequency of cycles, the shorter times off, and the better recoveries. Another contributing reason could be that intensity of training can be increased more for more moderate periods, such as going all-out for eight weeks, than for longer periods such as 14 or 20 weeks or what have you. Still another reason could be that there’s less issue following a bulking diet when it’s a shorter period of time. Anyway, it works.
If blasting and cruising, then the recovery aspect is taken out largely or totally, so better recovery wouldn’t be much if any advantage of shorter cycles.
You’d have all of the above advantages except the better recovery.
If being really precise, I suppose the needed frontload would be relative to the change in dosing, rather than the new dosing alone.
Actually though I never figured it that way for anyone, as it would be pretty much a fine tune unless the cruising were relatively high and the cycle were relatively modest.
But for example if the change were an additional 500 mg/week, and the half life was 5 days, then the added frontload would be an additional 500 mg on top of the usual injection amount for the cycle.
Primobolan is the only other steroid I’ve known to be used successfully that way but it doesn’t mean it’s the only other possible choice.
If estradiol is kept at a desirable modest level such as low 20’s pg/mL then probably most injectable anabolic steroids would be fine at some dosing level, though not Deca.
Masteron or Primo can result in “natural” (well, not really, just not with adding an antiaromatase) moderation of estradiol levels down to a suitable point such as the above.
Alkylated orals would be poor choices for long term even at low dosing.
Primobolan is the only other steroid I’ve known to be used successfully that way but it doesn’t mean it’s the only other possible choice.
If estradiol is kept at a desirable modest level such as low 20’s pg/mL then probably most injectable anabolic steroids would be fine at some dosing level, though not Deca.
Masteron or Primo can result in “natural” (well, not really, just not with adding an antiaromatase) moderation of estradiol levels down to a suitable point such as the above.
Alkylated orals would be poor choices for long term even at low dosing.[/quote]
So would it be safe to run TRT levels of test, 100 mg Masteron, and 100 mg Deca (For joint benefits) long term? As long as prolactin and E2 are under control? And if not for long term, how long would be ideal if not running blast type doses?
Primobolan is the only other steroid I’ve known to be used successfully that way but it doesn’t mean it’s the only other possible choice.
If estradiol is kept at a desirable modest level such as low 20’s pg/mL then probably most injectable anabolic steroids would be fine at some dosing level, though not Deca.
Masteron or Primo can result in “natural” (well, not really, just not with adding an antiaromatase) moderation of estradiol levels down to a suitable point such as the above.
Alkylated orals would be poor choices for long term even at low dosing.[/quote]
So would it be safe to run TRT levels of test, 100 mg Masteron, and 100 mg Deca (For joint benefits) long term? As long as prolactin and E2 are under control? And if not for long term, how long would be ideal if not running blast type doses?[/quote]
if you have joint issues, i’d think masteron isn’t the best choice. i doubt 100 mg a week is gonna cause too many issues, but it isn’t gonna help…
Primobolan is the only other steroid I’ve known to be used successfully that way but it doesn’t mean it’s the only other possible choice.
If estradiol is kept at a desirable modest level such as low 20’s pg/mL then probably most injectable anabolic steroids would be fine at some dosing level, though not Deca.
Masteron or Primo can result in “natural” (well, not really, just not with adding an antiaromatase) moderation of estradiol levels down to a suitable point such as the above.
Alkylated orals would be poor choices for long term even at low dosing.[/quote]
So would it be safe to run TRT levels of test, 100 mg Masteron, and 100 mg Deca (For joint benefits) long term? As long as prolactin and E2 are under control? And if not for long term, how long would be ideal if not running blast type doses?[/quote]
if you have joint issues, i’d think masteron isn’t the best choice. i doubt 100 mg a week is gonna cause too many issues, but it isn’t gonna help…[/quote]
Thanks for your input cyco, I was thinking of adding the mast to my trt protocol (200 md Test cyp /wk, 300 HCG EOD, and .1 adex EOD- This brings my levels to TT- 1100, FT-30, e2-25) for its supposed hardening effects and anti e properties. I miss spoke on the dose. I was planning 200 mg/wk mast. As far as the DECA, do you think I would see any joint benefits from between 100mg-15omg/wk?
Thanks again for your input.
[quote]KountKoma wrote:
I’m really interested to hear opinions on the situations that require staying on. I assume this means professional bodybuilding?
As a guy in his mid 30’s that trains a significant amount of combat martial arts (for a living) I have had a very rough time in PCT. Gains have been hard to keep while off. I just feel like I am burning the candle at both ends and can’t do it all. I started a 250mg of Test per week protocol and planned on it being 8 weeks (per Bills reco in another thread) and if I was blown away I would keep on forever. Well…it has been fantastic. I can do everything I want (within reason) and feel great. Hard to walk away from that knowing I can blast and end up right there again. Am I bullshitting myself?[/quote]
if you don’t mind me asking, aare you a competitor or instructor? what kind of martial arts?
honestly, as long as you get regular check ups, i think you can stay on an “enhanced TRT” for a long time… that’s what i’m kicking around right now, as i’ve been trying to sort out some other health issues.
[/quote]
I am an instructor. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai and Wrestling. Now that it looks like I found my solution I will start looking for a doc once I change my insurance next year and get the proper regular testing.[/quote]
cool.
i’m a big MMA fan, and have dabbled in BJJ and MT, among other things…
do you do much lifting on your own, or are basically teaching all day? have you looked into hGH (or any of the GHRPs/MK-677)?
[/quote]
I lift 3 days/week at a commercial gym. Barbell Programming (usually 2 big lifts/day) with accessory and bodyweight stuff thrown in where I can.
I haven’t looked in HGH yet or the others. I actually don’t even know what the others are. I suppose price and complication have kept me away, but I am interested. Just curious…what kind of dose would be doable long term on the HGH?
This thread is pure gold. Thank you all of the guys above for this invaluable info. I have one more question regarding HPTA recovery. How much is the importance of total time off from the gear (including PCT) for proper HPTA recovery. I think the duration of PCT is also important if we want a thorough recovery, one just can’t rush through the recovery process otherwise the LH/FSH levels will plummet again after a while. What would be the ideal time off (total) for say, an 8 week cycle ?
[quote]jasper41 wrote:
This thread is pure gold. Thank you all of the guys above for this invaluable info. I have one more question regarding HPTA recovery. How much is the importance of total time off from the gear (including PCT) for proper HPTA recovery. I think the duration of PCT is also important if we want a thorough recovery, one just can’t rush through the recovery process otherwise the LH/FSH levels will plummet again after a while. What would be the ideal time off (total) for say, an 8 week cycle ?[/quote]
Consensus in the community seems to be time on = time off. I think many disregard this though and probably do have a tough time recovering after doing this for awhile.
[quote]KountKoma wrote:
Consensus in the community seems to be time on = time off. I think many disregard this though and probably do have a tough time recovering after doing this for awhile.[/quote]
I also think that it’s not too off-base to disregard time on = time off consensus. Many times in a rush to repeat another cycle users tend to ignore complete recovery of their systems, and also sometimes everything seems to be fine after PCT but after a while things start to crash again, don’t know why, may be HPTA turns a little extra brittle sometimes. Isn’t it necessary to support bodily systems with OTC supplements like tribulus, rhodiola etc after PCT to ensure complete recovery? I mean, we know that body is an extremely complex organization of systems and we can’t be so sure with good T levels after PCT that everything’s back to normal.
[quote]KountKoma wrote:
Consensus in the community seems to be time on = time off. I think many disregard this though and probably do have a tough time recovering after doing this for awhile.[/quote]
I also think that it’s not too off-base to disregard time on = time off consensus. Many times in a rush to repeat another cycle users tend to ignore complete recovery of their systems, and also sometimes everything seems to be fine after PCT but after a while things start to crash again, don’t know why, may be HPTA turns a little extra brittle sometimes. Isn’t it necessary to support bodily systems with OTC supplements like tribulus, rhodiola etc after PCT to ensure complete recovery? I mean, we know that body is an extremely complex organization of systems and we can’t be so sure with good T levels after PCT that everything’s back to normal.[/quote]
well, and it’s easy to get bloodwork now, too (which used to be hit or miss for a lot of guys).
there’s really no excuse not to get bloodwork pre-cycle and post-PCT anymore. it’s certainly not a requirement, but IMO it’s an excellent idea for guys that really wanna know if they recovered or not.
it does seem to be the case that T levels take a little dip a month or so after PCT. Makes sense to me to ride that out before adding exogenous hormones again
[quote]dave241 wrote:
So would it be safe to run TRT levels of test, 100 mg Masteron, and 100 mg Deca (For joint benefits) long term? As long as prolactin and E2 are under control? And if not for long term, how long would be ideal if not running blast type doses?[/quote]
100 mg of each would come to more than TRT levels.
It’s unlikely that LH production would remain normal.
As to whether that would be safe for long term health, if blood lipids stayed good (not that blood lipids tell everything) and hematocrit stayed good, and no other blood test problems appeared there isn’t known evidence saying there would be a danger.
I don’t personally expect it’s unhealthy over the long term if blood tests remain good.