T Nation

Bill Starr's 5x5? No Pull-ups/Chin-ups?


Why is it that the intermediate version does not have any pullups/chinups? I would think those exercises are needed for a balanced routine, no?


if you think you should do them then why dont you just do them?


Well I guess I just read a little further and the program said if you want to add a few sets of them here or there that's fine...however..

I just posted the question because I wondered if pullups/chinups were needed to prevent any muscle imbalances from developing.

I guess lats/scapula get worked enough from deadlifting and bent rows?


in my opinion you should do vertical pulling as well as horizontal pulling. different stimulus and on top of that you are probably doing vertical and horizontal pushing. so its a way to balance that out. in which case keep the chins/pull ups.


Bill Starr's 5*5 is perhaps one of the greatest programs ever.

Dont mess with it.

Im sure you will survive without your pullups for a while.


I'm doing the program now. I've been throwing in 2 sets as assistance work in replacement of a few sets of situps. Great program though. I'm really enjoying it.


It's a time tested routine don't change it.


Didn't wanna change it really...just wanted to make sure not doing any vert pulling wouldnt develop any issues. Yeah, I have heard this program has been time tested. Thanks!


What type of deadlifts are supposed to be used? Stiff Leg or traditional?


I started this program recently, and I am doing an 8 x 3 of weighted pullups on Wednesdays after what's called for in the written program.


Traditional, no doubt. http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm#OTHER_PERTINENT_INFORMATION


I do 3 sets of chin ups on the deadlift day. It's the only one where my biceps and lats aren't hit directly, so I do them then. It doesn't really matter as long as you stick to the set-rep schemes of the big 3 on each day.


Seriously, why are people acting like adding some pull-ups is gonna kill the program? I did plenty of pull-ups with the program and all was good.


I don't think you want to do stiff leg dead lifts in a 5x5... or in any rep scheme at all dude.


It only makes sense when people know what they are doing and are in good enough shape to get away with almost any type of deviation.

A lot of people are not like that. And they start adding this thing, and then that other thing... and there are only 60 minutes in an hour and 24 hours in a day, so they start replacing this with that and taking things off the program.

And 3 weeks later they complain that the ${insert well-known training program} didn't work for them.

So it is not so much that people are against pull ups per say. They are against random people (of whom we have no way to assess their fitness level) start fiddling around with a tried-and-true program.

At least that's how I understood the prevalent POV.


Programs are written the way they are for a reason. I think once you start changing them, the results can be unpredictable.

IE You wouldn't add interval training in DC. It would change the routine towards unpredictable results(I'm sure the results wouldn't be for the better).

I like balanced routines that I can stay on for a long time(as long as im progressing), because I feel that's how I make progress. I want to avoid any inbalanced muscle groups. Hence why I asked this question.


Because f*cking with a recipe usually ends in you not getting the reults you wanted.

If you know you have more excercises your not going to work 100% at the excercises, thats the point of simplifying it down to 3 excercises.

I think Bill Starr knows a helluva lot more than "Joe Weekend Warrior" so in that regard i always tell people don't f*ck with it.


ummm.. you can add pullps onto wednesday workout no problem and infact madcows version mentions it.


LOL yah I was going to say that it mentions adding pullups if you like. It even says you can do as much cardio as you want.


if pullups take away from your power in the big 3 you got bigger problems than programming...