T Nation

Bill Roberts Question

Either Bill, or anyone else I wanted to get a little more info good or bad on two different pro-hormones that I’m taking, 1) 5-alpha androstane 3,17 beta diol 2) 1,4 Androstadiene-3,17-dione. Any info or comments (good or bad) would be much appreciated, thanks!

The first, 5alpha-androstanediol, is being sold as “Maxteron,” perhaps with the intent of sounding similar to Masteron, a highly-desired anabolic steroid, but is not at all like it. This compound is very potent in the rat for increasing prostate size but is a poor muscle anabolic even by injection (let alone orally.) I would completely avoid this one for bodybuilding purposes.

It is however a fascinating compound with regard to its immunological properties. I do not know if it is of value when taken orally, or if so, what the dose would be, but on injection it is a remarkable immune stimulator. Chronic use might be self-defeating but use when ill could be a good idea though that is unproven. It’s been shown in rats to enable them to survive inoculation with 1000 times the dose of coxsackievirus that would ordinarily kill a rat, and improves efficacy of immunizations in elderly humans. Not bad.

The second compound, androstan-1,4-diene-3,17-dione is being sold as Equibolan as an oral compound. According to Bill Llwellyn, the conversion to the corresponding 17-alcohol, which is boldenone, is more efficient than the analogous conversion of androstenedione to testosterone. I think this is an interesting compound that may have merit. We tried it as a transdermal and it was not of merit in that application however. If you are curious, it would be an interesting product to try.

I am currently using the Equi-Bolan product, my version is produced by Impact Nutrition. The label reads 50mgs of 1,4-Androstadiene-3, 17-dione. It is suggested that you take one to two capsules two to three times daily. I was taking one capsule x3 and did not notice a difference. I changed up to two capsules in the last week and have noticed a difference in my lifting. I will keep you posted if I see any other changes.

sacto tman, Did you notice an epoxy like odor from the Equi-Bolan bottle? I had bought a bottle and noticed what smelled like model airplane glue. I took the capsules out and let everything air out but the smell kept coming back if the bottle was closed for just a few minutes. I got light headed and dizzy when I opened the bottle. I did take a few capsules and noticed a huge libido boost and improved recovery after just two days but I stopped taking them because I did not want to ingest any toxins. I was not sure if anything had been absorbed by the powder in the capsules so just putting them in a different container was not an answer.

My bottle was fine. There was not any smell. I picked mine up at the local Max Muscle shop. I have noticed a nice gain in my chest and along with my quads. Maybe you can get a refund on your bottle?

sacto tman, Thanks. I may see about a refund and I might also want to try a new bottle of Equi-Bolan again. It seemed to be working.

Since my libido boost was so large I was wondering if anyone has an idea if testicular atrophy and testosterone shutdown might be a possible side effect of this stuff.

Thanks.

GlennP, my bottle of Equi-Bolan had that same epoxy smell. I didn’t notice it until I checked after reading your post. The good thing however is that I have gained about 3 lbs so far and I’ve only been on for 5 days. My appetite is going up big time and I have a slight improvement in vascularity. I hope it’s not placebo effect.

Glenn, temporary suppression of natural testosterone production can occur with use of any androgen that’s at sufficient doses to build muscle rapidly. Atrophy (which is reversible) can occur with prolonged use. As with Androsol, if you use the Equibolan on a 2 on / 4 off cycle you have nothing to be worried about. If you use it heavily for months on end, perhaps you may.

Keep us posted guys. I’d be very interested how the whole cycle ends up. Bill, why did you guys not go after this compound? You said that it didn’t work as a transdermal, but what about as an oral. How would you guess your new prohormones will compare?

Dave, Biotest didn’t go after equidione, as I call the molecule (it has no official name so far as I know, and Equi-Bolan is a brand name) as an oral because Impact Nutrition is already producing that product for you if it is one that you want. There really would be no point in us selling a powder-in-capsule
same as theirs… why not just buy theirs? I wish them the best of success with their product. It’s a good innovation.

Sometimes some other companies have good stuff. Though I am not that sure about how good Equi-Bolan is,
for example I use I use Twinlab’s Dale Alexander Super MaxEPA capsules, an excellent product, and just because it’s good doesn’t mean we need to produce a Biotest clone of it. There’s no need. When the original is doing a good job with the product, why should others clone them? (Well, there can be reasons, such as having no product ideas of your own, or wanting to shaft the original innovator, but that’s not our style.)

Now, we do have some related compounds that are I think more promising than equidione, but not the same molecule.

The equidione molecule will always be limited because it has no inherent activity: the activity can only come after conversion, and this will hit a ceiling. Now, where that ceiling is is the interesting question. With androstenedione (same enzyme, same type of conversion) it’s pretty pitiful. Apparently with equidione it is considerably better. But it would have to be I think 10-20 times better to match what we can do with molecules that are intrinsically active, or which have extremely high conversion. So while it is entirely possible that it is a good product, yes I believe we can do better, and have already I think with both Androsol and Nandrosol, let alone future products.

Now, if you can take only one capsule of Equi-Bolan three times per day and get the same kind of gains people are getting from Androsol and Nandrosol, then if that were so, wow, that would be a super product.

But I don’t expect this is the case, because 1) transdermal delivery was no doubt delivering far more into the system than they recommend for oral use, but seemed to do little if anything, and 2) I tried oral dosing at 300 mg three times per day and this also seemed to do little if anything. So I really do not think that equidione, no matter how much you take, can match what we already have.

Now, keep in mind that I am a difficult test
case for prohormones, being above my natural limit, and furthermore tending to judge progress by the standards set by some pretty good pharmaceutical stacks, or by maximum-recommended-dose Androsol or Nandrosol.
Someone else might do considerably better on
the same dosage. So I am not saying it
cannot work for you.

Basically, I think conversion is the limiting factor with equidione and so past some rather limited point, more of it does no further good.

The questions are whether this limit on conversion is at a point giving you gains comparable to Androsol or Nandrosol or giving less than that; and whether you need 2 capsules at a time or more to get good results. If you in fact need 2 or more capsules
at a time, then the price advantage is with Androsol and Nandrosol.

Anyway, that’s why we did not “go after it” as an oral product.

is there only one company that makes this product?

Point well taken. I hate when a company comes out with a product and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. You never know who started the whole thing. Which is what most of them want.

Bill, thanks for your responses. I have one more question though. When I was taking the Equi-bolan (2 capsules 3x per day) I noticed a slight pain in one of my testicles. Does that mean anything bad?

Thanks.

GlennP, I also had some pain in one testicle while taking 2 caps 3x a day. It went away the next day however, It’s quite disconcerning.