T Nation

Bill Roberts' Post/Article on PWO Nutrition


#1

I've searched, but I can't find this article. He talked about the PWO window really being 24 hours long etc etc. Anybody have the link to this?

Thanks,
Mac


#2

That sounds more like a David Barr article, to me. Is it this?

If I’m wrong my apologies, I just don’t remember Bill writing something like that. Barr seemed to be all about it, though.


#3

It was Dave Barr.

Put it this way. If your body would “only” accept nutrients within an hour or two PWO, then that should mean that your body only NEEDS nutrients for that amount of time for tissue repair / glycogen restoration, and won’t be repairing tissue afterward. How would that make sense?

It doesn’t. I think your physiological recovery period (24-36 hours) is pretty much the “window” that you can feed your muscles with nutrients.


#4

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
It was Dave Barr.

Put it this way. If your body would “only” accept nutrients within an hour or two PWO, then that should mean that your body only NEEDS nutrients for that amount of time for tissue repair / glycogen restoration, and won’t be repairing tissue afterward. How would that make sense?

It doesn’t. I think your physiological recovery period (24-36 hours) is pretty much the “window” that you can feed your muscles with nutrients.[/quote]

I don’t think anyone is saying that the body “only” accepts nutrients within an hour or two post workout; rather, what Barr’s article tried to do, was to make it known that the metabolic advantages conferred to muscle tissue as a result of exercise exist longer than the “1 hour window” that gets thrown around so much as dogma.


#5

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
It was Dave Barr.

Put it this way. If your body would “only” accept nutrients within an hour or two PWO, then that should mean that your body only NEEDS nutrients for that amount of time for tissue repair / glycogen restoration, and won’t be repairing tissue afterward. How would that make sense?

It doesn’t. I think your physiological recovery period (24-36 hours) is pretty much the “window” that you can feed your muscles with nutrients.[/quote]

The concept of ‘nutrient window’ is laughable. Do we really think that our bodies are so lacking in survival capability that nutrients have to be timed? If this concept was true, then those with the biggest window would exist today, the others evolving out of existence. Hey, wait a minute! That’s what happened!! LOL!

I love how modern ‘experts’ try to fit human beings to mathematical models, with all sorts of continuous functions. I’m beginning to think that nutrition science, which gave us such wonders as HFCS and food colourings, is one of the greatest jokes ever played on humanity.


#6

[quote]NewDamage wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:
It was Dave Barr.

Put it this way. If your body would “only” accept nutrients within an hour or two PWO, then that should mean that your body only NEEDS nutrients for that amount of time for tissue repair / glycogen restoration, and won’t be repairing tissue afterward. How would that make sense?

It doesn’t. I think your physiological recovery period (24-36 hours) is pretty much the “window” that you can feed your muscles with nutrients.

I don’t think anyone is saying that the body “only” accepts nutrients within an hour or two post workout; rather, what Barr’s article tried to do, was to make it known that the metabolic advantages conferred to muscle tissue as a result of exercise exist longer than the “1 hour window” that gets thrown around so much as dogma.[/quote]

That’s what I was trying to get at but my brain is fried from finals week. I’m not about to proof my posts for you SOBs when I’m hallucinating from sleep deprivation :slight_smile:


#7

Here’s thge right spot for this post:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
Refer to the 102 articles/studies that support the International Society of Sports Nutrition’s position stand on Nutrient Timing. http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/17[/quote]

The research backs the following 8 point:

[quote]1.) Maximal endogenous glycogen stores are best promoted by following a high-glycemic, high-carbohydrate (CHO) diet (600 â?? 1000 grams CHO or ~8 â?? 10 g CHO/kg/d), and ingestion of free amino acids and protein (PRO) alone or in combination with CHO before resistance exercise can maximally stimulate protein synthesis.

2.) During exercise, CHO should be consumed at a rate of 30 â?? 60 grams of CHO/hour in a 6 â?? 8% CHO solution (8 â?? 16 fluid ounces) every 10 â?? 15 minutes. Adding PRO to create a CHO:PRO ratio of 3 â?? 4:1 may increase endurance performance and maximally promotes glycogen re-synthesis during acute and subsequent bouts of endurance exercise.

3.) Ingesting CHO alone or in combination with PRO during resistance exercise increases muscle glycogen, offsets muscle damage, and facilitates greater training adaptations after either acute or prolonged periods of supplementation with resistance training.

4.) Post-exercise (within 30 minutes) consumption of CHO at high dosages (8 â?? 10 g CHO/kg/day) have been shown to stimulate muscle glycogen re-synthesis, while adding PRO (0.2 g â?? 0.5 g PRO/kg/day) to CHO at a ratio of 3 â?? 4:1 (CHO: PRO) may further enhance glycogen re-synthesis.

5.) Post-exercise ingestion (immediately to 3 h post) of amino acids, primarily essential amino acids, has been shown to stimulate robust increases in muscle protein synthesis, while the addition of CHO may stimulate even greater levels of protein synthesis. Additionally, pre-exercise consumption of a CHO + PRO supplement may result in peak levels of protein synthesis.

6.) During consistent, prolonged resistance training, post-exercise consumption of varying doses of CHO + PRO supplements in varying dosages have been shown to stimulate improvements in strength and body composition when compared to control or placebo conditions.

7.) The addition of creatine (Cr) (0.1 g Cr/kg/day) to a CHO + PRO supplement may facilitate even greater adaptations to resistance training.

8.) Nutrient timing incorporates the use of methodical planning and eating of whole foods, nutrients extracted from food, and other sources. The timing of the energy intake and the ratio of certain ingested macronutrients are likely the attributes which allow for enhanced recovery and tissue repair following high-volume exercise, augmented muscle protein synthesis, and improved mood states when compared with unplanned or traditional strategies of nutrient intake.[/quote]


#8

For some reason the link you posted, while reading correctly, doesn’t work correctly.

Perhaps manual cut and paste is necessary. The full link, but minus the http and backslash stuff, is:

Well worth going to the article. Thanks for posting it, BT.


#9

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
Here’s thge right spot for this post:

BulletproofTiger wrote:
Refer to the 102 articles/studies that support the International Society of Sports Nutrition’s position stand on Nutrient Timing. http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/17

The research backs the following 8 point:

1.) Maximal endogenous glycogen stores are best promoted by following a high-glycemic, high-carbohydrate (CHO) diet (600 â?? 1000 grams CHO or ~8 â?? 10 g CHO/kg/d), and ingestion of free amino acids and protein (PRO) alone or in combination with CHO before resistance exercise can maximally stimulate protein synthesis.

2.) During exercise, CHO should be consumed at a rate of 30 â?? 60 grams of CHO/hour in a 6 â?? 8% CHO solution (8 â?? 16 fluid ounces) every 10 â?? 15 minutes. Adding PRO to create a CHO:PRO ratio of 3 â?? 4:1 may increase endurance performance and maximally promotes glycogen re-synthesis during acute and subsequent bouts of endurance exercise.

3.) Ingesting CHO alone or in combination with PRO during resistance exercise increases muscle glycogen, offsets muscle damage, and facilitates greater training adaptations after either acute or prolonged periods of supplementation with resistance training.

4.) Post-exercise (within 30 minutes) consumption of CHO at high dosages (8 â?? 10 g CHO/kg/day) have been shown to stimulate muscle glycogen re-synthesis, while adding PRO (0.2 g â?? 0.5 g PRO/kg/day) to CHO at a ratio of 3 â?? 4:1 (CHO: PRO) may further enhance glycogen re-synthesis.

5.) Post-exercise ingestion (immediately to 3 h post) of amino acids, primarily essential amino acids, has been shown to stimulate robust increases in muscle protein synthesis, while the addition of CHO may stimulate even greater levels of protein synthesis. Additionally, pre-exercise consumption of a CHO + PRO supplement may result in peak levels of protein synthesis.

6.) During consistent, prolonged resistance training, post-exercise consumption of varying doses of CHO + PRO supplements in varying dosages have been shown to stimulate improvements in strength and body composition when compared to control or placebo conditions.

7.) The addition of creatine (Cr) (0.1 g Cr/kg/day) to a CHO + PRO supplement may facilitate even greater adaptations to resistance training.

8.) Nutrient timing incorporates the use of methodical planning and eating of whole foods, nutrients extracted from food, and other sources. The timing of the energy intake and the ratio of certain ingested macronutrients are likely the attributes which allow for enhanced recovery and tissue repair following high-volume exercise, augmented muscle protein synthesis, and improved mood states when compared with unplanned or traditional strategies of nutrient intake.

[/quote]

Why not just have an IV bag full of sugar water attached while working out? Makes sense to me. Okay, sorry guys; go ahead with the nutrient timing thing. That’s much more powerful than millions of years of evolution. LOL!


#10

Hmm, whom should I listen to: Drs Kerksick, Stout, Kalman, Ziegenfuss, Antonio, et al (authors of the article in question), or Headhunter?

Man that’s going to have me going back and forth all day long.


#11

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Hmm, whom should I listen to: Drs Kerksick, Stout, Kalman, Ziegenfuss, Antonio, et al (authors of the article in question), or Headhunter?

Man that’s going to have me going back and forth all day long.[/quote]

hahaha


#12

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Hmm, whom should I listen to: Drs Kerksick, Stout, Kalman, Ziegenfuss, Antonio, et al (authors of the article in question), or Headhunter?

Man that’s going to have me going back and forth all day long.[/quote]

Come on he is entertaining lol


#13

Dammit you forgot your ‘nutrient timing’!


#14

“Don’t skip proper post-workout recovery drinks.”

-Christian Thibaudeau


#15

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
“Don’t skip proper post-workout recovery drinks.”

-Christian Thibaudeau[/quote]

HHmmmmm


#16

Even more hhmmmmm