T Nation

Bill Roberts: 2 Weeks On, 4 Weeks Off


#1

I'm really interested in this 2week 'on' and 4 week 'off' cycle strategy!!

It appeals to me as I want to make steady gains over the next year but don't like running long cycles because 1) the long recovery 2) after a few weeks the negative sides start to show.

I've being doing my reading and theres a lot of useful threads on this site which has really helped. Ive still a few questions which I would love to get answered so here they are

1) Bill Roberts has said on many threads that 2'on' and 2'off' is a little more aggressive so I was thinking of doing 2'on' 3'off' with the first two weeks of 'off' using PCT and the 3rd week completely off, how does this approach sound??

2) A forum on MESO-Rx Bill talked about using clomid/nolva in a ratio of 50/50. Another member was saying how he is sensitive to clomid so Bill recommmended that he try a 50/50 split. I'm sensitive to clomid and was wondering if this approach is still recommended or is using nolva on its own just as good??

3) By using this roid calculator: http://roidcalc.powerbody.ru/?langid=8 I worked out that the half life of the sum of my substances (Tren a, Test p, Vbol) was 56mg on day 15 is this amount too high to begin PCT

4) Does Bill or anyone still recommend to front-load with PCT I've seen Bill recommend to front-load with clomid @ 300mg on Day15 then drop it down to 50mg for another 13 days. Is there a better approach??

5) In recent times has there been a better method out that gives you good results, low to no negative side effects and a fast recovery


#2

300mg of clomid? That is insane and harmful.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/the_pct_serm_dosing_in_this_forum_is_wrong

"I'm sensitive to clomid":
If it makes you feel bad, some guys have that and you should not use it and rely on Nolvadex.


#3

I do admit Bill has great knowledge, but 300mg clomid? Really aggressive!

Even with test prop, you should wait 8 to 10 days for PCT, not talking about HCG (you can use it right from the begining)... 2 on 2 off is not enough time for recovery from any point, health, HPTA, you're gonna mess up your self with on and off several times... this idea of breaking plateau is variable. This is distorted idea of hormone use. There's nothing like "no negative effects" when using hormones for growth. TRT can be healthy when correctly done. 4 weeks may be enough time for recovery, but you are not going to grow man! 2 weeks ON??? 4 OFF?? No, and everyone that trusts this 2 on 4 off is deluded. And about "bad sides", every single time I came off a cycle my body and my mind suffered, that's why I stopped this PCT bullshit... sorry for talking the truth, the ones that's still believe in Santa Claus, I'm really sorry...


#4

I did a series of short cycles about 2 years ago, 2 on/4off, 3-4 times. I was using Cut Mix, 50mg each of tren a/test p/mast p, shooting 1ml per day putting my total weekly use a shade over 1 gram. I did a log, you should still be able to find it on here.

I liked the results I got from this, but my diet wasn't dialed in as tight as it should have been - so I didn't lose much fat, just put on muscle and strength (benched 370 for a good single, highest I've ever done BY FAR). Each two week cycle I would gain around 10 pounds, then during the 4 weeks off I would drop about half of that. After 3-4 of these, I ended up about 10-15 pounds (give or take) heavier, noticeably bigger and more muscular, but didn't get cut up or shredded (again, diet). First two weeks off were PCT, forget exact dosing I used but it was Nolva. Still felt good and strong the first week or so after coming off, to the point of still making strength gains without adding any size. The fourth week off, right before going on again, usually felt like crap. Slight loss of motivation, not too serious; was able to move the weights I had planned but still felt weaker if that makes sense.

Biggest issue was about a month or two after my last short cycle, I felt like I crashed - loss of drive, started having trouble meeting my prescribed weights, felt run down most of the time. Did another PCT of Nolva 40/40/20/20, and that got me back on track. Everything I had read at the time said I could start PCT 2-3 days after last inject due to short esters, but in retrospect I probably should have waited a few more days or even a week, and should have done a full 4 week PCT after the last one. I may do these again in the future, and I'll try to remember those pointers if I do.

If you were going to follow a similar plan, I would do this:

ON
2 weeks

OFF
week 1 - no injections, no PCT, letting short esters clear
week 2 - PCT, 40mg Nolva
week 3 - PCT, due to short nature of this, not sure if it would be better to stay at 40mg Nolva or drop to 20mg for second week
week 4 - PCT finished, waiting this week before starting again

I don't think 2 week cycles will do much as a stand alone, but a series of them should give you good results. Also, after the last of your series, I would wait a week again and then do a full 4 week PCT. I don't know it for a fact, but I think that would have helped with my recovery after the last one. Also, one of the biggest keys to success with this strategy is high amounts of gear, 1 gram or more per week - I want to say Bill Roberts chimed in on another thread about this and supported that statement. You're only on for a short time so you have to be aggressive in that area, without being stupid.


#5

It does seem like a hormone roller coaster, but I don't have any experience to comment on it intelligently. I will say Bill does support 1g a week minimum as a general rule and shorter cycles as a general rule.


#6

What about dropping to TRT dosages on off weeks rather than doing PCT?


#7

Myth, I had the same thought after posting my previous comment. Since I have been blasting and cruising since January (and plan to for the foreseeable future), I may test that theory at some point. Maybe after the cycle I'm stocking up for.


#8

I'm going to try a series of 4 on/4 week PCT/4 off, back on again cycles next year.

Quite excited about it. I used to laugh at the idea of short cycles but I've come around to the idea.


#9

Thanks very much for your input! Just on what you said regarding PCT, you recommend waiting one week to begin even doe they are fast acting esters. I used the Steriod calculator and on day 15(Planed day of beginning PCT) The total sum of steroids in my system will be 56mg. Even at this low amount you think beginning a week later will help with recovery??

Also I do plan to run 3/4 of these in a row! Do you think adding in some HCG in the 2nd,3rd and 4th cycle could help with recovery?


#10

I'm doing close to a gram a week(850mg) in total as this is my first time running a short cycle so just trying to be conservative.


#11

As I don't want to stay 'on' this isn't something I'd look into atm. But I'm sure this would be a great idea similar to blasting and cursing I suppose


#12

t-
Honestly, you could probably do it either way. Since you are only planning 3 off (where I did 4), I would probably go ahead and start PCT your first week off. Three off will probably feel better than four off anyway, since like I said that fourth week I felt a definite drop off. As for HCG, I haven't used it much (and not during the short cycles) so I couldn't really say. Couldn't hurt, I would assume it would be like using it in any other cycle. Just keep that in mind when you are adjusting AI levels.

As to the amount being used, you're only talking another 150mg, I'd go for the 1g mark if it doesn't screw up your schedule/plan. When I did my short cycles, they were the first cycles I had done (aside from a couple PH runs) since '99, and I was injecting just over a gram. Going your way though, gives you room to play around, maybe do 850 for the first one, and then 1000 the second just to see if you notice a difference. Also, make sure you have caber or something similar on hand. I tried tren ace without it (used vit e, B5, and SamE instead) and suffered the consequences. Nothing permanent, but my wife was rather frustrated with me at the time.


#13

So I'm going to run my PCT for the first two weeks and I'll do 40mg nolva for week1 and 20mg for week2 or do you think staying at 40mg is better. I'm using arimadex as AI .5mg EOD and that seems to be fine... I can't get Caber!! I'll also do a bit more research on HCG and see if I'll add that to the next cycles, BoatGuy thanks again for taking your time to give me advice! It's appreciated