T Nation

Bill Roberts 2 On/4 Off Cycle Prop/Var/Dbol


#1

Looking for feedback from people who have tried 2 seekers or have experience with them.

I am 37 years old, have been lifting on and off since I was a teenager, lifting last 3.5 years consistently. 200lbs, 27% bf. Ive successfully bulked and cut without supplementation, hitting the 1-2 lbs per week goal of gains or losses for months at a time. My maxes: 405x4 deads, 325x3 bench, 350x5 squat.

I want a quicker body recoup this year than I can get naturally. However, I don’t want it to be as fast as I’ve witnessed guys at the gym who are on long cycles end up achieving. I have to fly under the radar at home, and at work. A few pounds more muscle and less fat per month than I can normally get is fine with me.

After 2 months of research, this is the cycle I have come up with:

2 weeks on, 4 off, repeated 3 times.

Test Prop 300mg day 1, 100mg ed day 2-11
Var 50mg ed day 1-12
Dbol 30mg ed day 1-14
Arimidex .25mg ed

N2Gaurd, Liv.52, HCGenerate: Start these 3 days before day 1 and continue through day 30.

Clomid 200mg day 15, 50mg ed day 16-24

Will have Nolva on hand to split or substitute Clomid if sides are too
strong.

Day 45, start cycle over.

Any experienced feedback will be greatly appreciated.


#2

I might just be speaking for myself , but I’ve done quite a bit of research on AAS and have a few cycles under my belt . I know being shutdown isn’t good and its hard on the HPTA, so I can’t see it being good shutting yourself down and putting your body through that stress that many times in such a short period of time…

Not to mention the fact that your going to just be making decent progress once you get 2 weeks in, then your just gonna stop juicing go through pct and lose those gains? Seems like a stupid cycle plan to me bro…

For prop/those faster esters 5-8 weeks seems to be the norm when it comes to cycle length. Unless it’s something like test base/ test suspension where I think 4-6 is the norm for cycle length. Dude if you don’t want to look like the other guys who make good progress being on gear, my suggestion is to wait And not touch gear at all…

What’s the point of putting your body , especially your endocrine system , through all of that just to make mediocre gains? If what your doing is working just keep at it bro, and juice when your ready, but do it right . Do as much research as possible on cycle length and dosages and PCT and then maybe do it up.

Also I just noticed you put var and dbol in your short cycle, that’s pointless dude, that’s counter productive … Dbol will bloat you up and add mass, var is for much leaner gains/fat loss. If you would like me to write you an example for a good first cycle let me know

good luck bro…


#3

Thank you for the reply. From what I understand about the HPTA, 2 weeks is long enough to shut you down, though not long enough to where your pituitary becomes desensitized, or for your testes to not immediately come back to normal production much much more quickly than longer cycles.

The combination of Dbol and Var with prop-I saw this mix as a theme with guys who did these short cycles and posted that they kept their 3-6 lbs lean gains from the 2 weeks, over their 2-4 week off period. Tren was another popular part of the 2 week cycles that I’ve seen posted about, and will be adding that in after getting a few of these cycles under my belt.


#4

I don’t see benefit on this kind of cycle. You put on steroid and take of in a short period of time, you don’t give your body the right time to grow… you need to consider that some people just don’t shut down with this dose and drugs, myself for example, I’m on 350mg test and 600mg bold/ w, my lasta sperm count (last week) was 10.000.000 with no HCG, no clomid, no nothing, so, putting this kinda of stress and crazy UP and DOWN hormones into your body is not a good idea. Make 1 good cycle and take a good recover if you don’t want to be on forever, then repeat it again if you want it. I’m suspect because I don’t like this kinda of cycle you presented.


#5

Thanks for your input, Thiago.


#6

Is there anyone out there who has tried the 2 week protocol or otherwise has experience with 2 weekers that can comment?


#7

Clomid 200mg, that is idiotic, 25mg/day is more than enough.

Your LH/FSH will be shut down on this cycle in one day. What do you expect HCGenerate to do with shutdown testes?

You should not be shutting down your testes and using PCT to restart them. Use 250iu hCG SC EOD or 25mg Clomid EOD. Some feel like crap on Clomid, those guys can use 20-25mg nolvadex in place of 25mg Clomid. If using a low dose SERM during cycle, testes should remain full sized and firm and PCT consists simply of reducing the SERM dose tapering to 0.5mg anastrozole per week and cruising on that for a few weeks past PCT. If using hCG, you would replace hCG with SERM as suggested above to get the hypothalamus and pituitary producing LH+FSH for a few weeks then proceed as per SERM. In the first case, the SERM keeps the whole HPTA functioning. In the second, the top end of the HPTA is shut down and hCG keeps the testes working. Without any of this, testes, hypothalamus and pituitary all need to be restarted.

300mg T will also create a front load of T–>E2.
After that, 350mg T/week will be more than 1.75mg anastrozole per week can manage. Most would need twice that to get near E2=22pg/ml. However a few are over-responders who only know when the feel bad with crashed E2. Those need 1/4th the expected dose of 1mg per 100mg T. I do not know at what point with BB T doses that this linear relationship breaks done.

If you fuck this up totally, we can help on the TRT forum. There is a HPTA restart sticky there.

When you dose T, it takes time for it to lead to gene expression changes in cell nuclei that lead to benefits. I agree with the poster to pointed out that a two week time scale may be too short to make gains. Given T clearance times, it is more like a 3 week cycle.

Your proposed cycle+PCT may cause shutdown from E2 rebound and your gains are negative.


#8

Thanks for your input. So, you suggest using Clomid (or Nolva) 25mg EOD during cycle? How much clomid/nolva do you suggest and when, and how much anastrozole do you suggest, and when?


#9

With TRT or gear, LH/FSH production is shutoff within one day and T–>E2 increases within one day. Start both on day two. Serum levels of anastrozole and Clomid will take a few days to ramp up from a constant dose and thus will ramp up as T levels build.

AI needs to work against constant FT levels and that requires at a minimum, injecting T twice a week. In that case taking AI at injection time roughly tracks movement of T levels. In a TRT context many inject EOD which yields very steady T levels. In that case, the reason may be to make routine more rational as hCG is often injected EOD because of its half-life. There are different approaches that are valid.


#10

Thank you for your input. Is there anyone out there with experience doing the 2on 4off cycles who can comment?


#11

Bump.


#12

You gotta remember, you’re 37, which makes it much harder to recover. Id look into just getting into TRT and then blast inbetween bloods.


#13

If you’re on TRT, do you still have any natural test production? Can you still have children? The only thing I have researched is 2 week cycles.


#14

No.

Yes.

Do more research. A 2 week cycle is absolutely absurd.


#15

I hear you. I know it’s not super popular, hopefully some one who has tried it will comment.