T Nation

Bill: 2 Cycle Scenarios

Bill: Sometime last week you responded to a post that there was no such thing as an “ideal” cycle; That it all really depended on your goals. Makes sense. So I decided to pose to you two scenarios (that probably aren’t too uncommon) as a tool for learning a bit more about the practical use of anabolics in the “real” world (if this crazy world we love could be called “real”!-:). So here goes:

Scenario One
1)A 23 year old female former gymnast has been competing for the past 2 1/2 years in fitness competitions. She is trained by a former National level bodybuilder who pushes her training to the max. Her diet is clean, with plenty of protein, small frequent meals, adequate cals and growth and fat loss promoting macro ratios. She has come in at least first or second in every competition she has been in, and barely missed the cut for the Jan Tana. Her trainer says that a judge friend of hers said her routine was great, but her aesthetic was too “Self and Fitness Magazine” looking (“ouch!”). She needed fuller, larger and more shapely musculature. Her trainer said it’s time to “move to the next level” and recommends a cycle. She is 5’7", about 125 lbs., and her trainer figures she can use 15-20 lbs of quality muscle.Our competitor says "okay; but no chest hair, deep voice, bald hair or a “cow cootie”. What do you suggest, for how long and why?

Scenario Two 1) A 21 year old former All State Linebacker couldn't quite make the cut as a Wolverine. But he loves Michigan, even if he didn't keep his scholarship. To supplement tuition cost, he dances with a group of guys at parties and night clubs around Ann Arbor. He follows the advice to the hilt that he gets from "Testosterone", works out hard and smart, and follows the advice of a personal trainer who is known to be a "T-Mag Disciple". He is a trim 6'2", 170 lbs with muscles right out of "Men's Fitness". But he realizes that he can make more money if he could put on about 30-50 lbs of solid, hard, "botty shakin'" muscle, especially for those Sorority Parties in Ann Arbor! One of his fellow dancers recommends some "Vitamins". What do you suggest, for how long, and why?

Hope this will be fun instead of a pain, Bill! Thanks!

I know Bill will give you a more detailed answer, but there are some basics anybody can tell you. Obviously you can’t have high androgens, so it’s primo,winny,anavar for girls. If the guy is going to continue working he can’t be bloated and smooth so if he’d probably have to take something for estrogen conversion unless he does winstrol.

Bill: I forgot one…

Nate Dogg is a 44 year old, former Division 1 LaCross Champion from UNC. He always prided himself at working hard and playing hard. However, since getting married, having kids and working himself up the “corporate ladder” at Cisco Systems, less playing and more working behind a desk made it so that he could barely walk up some stairs, much less score 3 goals against Stanford.

Two years ago he cleaned up his diet, began working out religiously and made significant progress. At 5’10" he went from 230 pounds and 37% BF to 180 lbs and 10% BF. He’s as strong as ever, and in his estimation, his muscles are again tight and full. Even his six pack is back! Still not in college shape, but gettin’ there. Then the other day, he felt like he was hit square in the stomach with a Lacrosse stick. Some hot little honey in some Thong workout wear that she painted on comes up to him while he is loading some “'45’s” and says “Sir, can I help you with that?” Damn…He works out hard, his diet is clean, but quite frankly, he isn’t as hard, buffed and as huge as “Animal”, the 25 year old kid he sometimes works out with. And screw that age thing…Christa Bauch was a 50 year old FEMALE that could put an average 20 year old guy to shame with her muscle fullness and hardness. He decides to take “Animals” advice and begin some “juice”. He ain’t gettin’ younger; and he’ll show little Miss Tight Butt a thing or two…“Sir?”…Geeez…

What do you reccommend for a cycle, how much and why? Is Testosterone an additional consideration in his age group? THANKS, Bill!

Thanks, ts…please…anybody chime in with advice and suggestions…that’s how you learn…

For women who want to use, the suggestions I have are:

  1. Primo seems the best in terms of anabolic effect vs. virilizing effects. (Winstrol, by the way, is bad in this department.)

  2. For women the philsophy with regards to dosing and frequency is opposite to that of men. For a man wanting good (but not absolutely maximal) results, the best plan is to hit it reasonably hard for a while, even a short while, and make good fast gains, then take time off. For a woman, this is non-optimal. If a woman is going to use say 1600 mg of Primo over the course of a year, she’s at much less risk and will get better results from 30 mg/week every week than she will from 100 mg/week for two 8 week cycles. The reason is that the lower dose will not, unless she is unusually sensitive to androgens as some women are, put her over the threshold where virilization begins. Just doesn’t occur. Whereas the higher dose may be past that threshold and virilization will slowly (or rapidly) develop.

  3. Use the least that is giving satisfactory results. Allow a month for evaluation results from current dose and don’t increase by more than 50%.

  4. A pretty typical dose considered moderate is 50 mg Primo per week, and some can use 100 mg/week with no problem, but this is typically used briefly and I would not recommend it for extended periods of time, nor do I recommend the brief-use-followed-by-time-off approach for women anyway.

In your second example, it looks similar to the average case and the typical advice would apply.