T Nation

Biggest Mistake a Beginner Can Make

[quote]alexus wrote:
I guess what I’m asking people is whether they think that that is a stupid line of attack for a bodybuilder wannabe… Whether one would indeed be better starting off with a bodypart split with more isolation work (not just for biceps) rather than saving that for once one has built a fairly solid base of good form on the main compounds and the end of linear progression.

[/quote]

You have read every book known to man, we get it.

Your experience with practical application is very minimal. The fact you have to ask this stupid fucking question is proof you shouldn’t be giving out advice, and need more experience in the gym before you do.

Read all you want, but don’t think that makes up for actual experience, whether that be on yourself or training someone else.

Why the fuck Olympic lifters are telling people how to be bodybuilders in the first place baffles me, but if you insist, at least “get” what you trying to teach first.

Watch the Karate Kid. (The orginal, not the shitty new one) How good was Daniel Son when all he had was learning from a book? How good was he when he had an actual coach and did shit in real life?

I’d never claim to tell anybody how to be a bodybuilder - because I don’t know shit about it.
I asked my question because I’m trying to learn.
I’m asking for people with actual experience to tell me what they think.
Why?
Um…

Probably because I actually value what people with actual experience have to say about this issue.

[quote]alexus wrote:
I’d never claim to tell anybody how to be a bodybuilder - because I don’t know shit about it.
I asked my question because I’m trying to learn.
I’m asking for people with actual experience to tell me what they think.
Why?
Um…

Probably because I actually value what people with actual experience have to say about this issue.

[/quote]

Well you have posted in no less than two threads where I answered your question at least 16 times in one of them.

So, seeing as you ignored it the first 285 times I and others posted the answer, excuse me while I completely expect you to ignore it again.

I’ll be so kind here as to speak on behalf of every TNation newb who ever feels like giving advice…

regardless of training experience, age, stats, goals, etc…just do Starting Strength or 5/3/1!!

There. Problem solved. Now you can stop posting this in every fucking training forum. You have nothing left to post…now go train instead.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Well you have posted in no less than two threads where I answered your question at least 16 times in one of them.

[/quote]

Link?

Here’s my theory of how bodybuilding gets screwed up LOL

<Mistake number 1>
Newbies start off with some stupid routine that they picked up (which was designed for someone else) where they give their bodyparts too much volume, and not enough frequency (newbies often recover pretty quickly, and don’t need as much fatigue for growth). They may get somewhere if they eat enough, but often they plateau.

Straight away the newbie is biased and lumps all bodybuilding programs into same category (trash)

<Mistake number 2>
Someone tells them, or the newbie themselves sees powerlifters or other athletes and says; “they’re quite big, I need to train more like them!” So off he goes…3-4 years later he wonders why he doesn’t look like a bodybuilder (that’s if he’s even objective enough to properly see himself in a picture from different angles etc and isn’t being deluded).

To illustrate it - it’s like a rich man who feels depressed and miserable. He sees the poor man in the street and he looks happy. So immediately he concludes that being poor is the solution! Being poor CAN help the poor man see what is more important, but it doesn’t guarantee it. Even so, the poor man can be happy to some degree, but could do better with more money.

In reality, it’s how you view your situation, it’s what you do with your life, not what you have. The rich man has just as much potential of being happy and more, if he makes the best of his situation.

Bodybuilding programs work…if it was designed/adapted for the individual…and if the individual sees what’s important.

With an ocean of information out there and so many powerlifters/olympic lifters/S&C coaches/gym teachers and clueless forum rats trying to speak with authority on how everyone should be training, it is no wonder that so many end up spinning their wheels.

The best advice I can give is that, if you are serious about this shit, get someone experienced to help you out directly and forget about all this internet forum crap. Unless of course you can get someone here to help you out via PM, that can work. Find a gym where serious bodybuilders train, and someone WILL show you how it’s done, as long as they see you showing up and taking it seriously.

Realize that most people come here for entertainment, and of course to see how their e-dicks measure up to everyone else.

[quote]alexus wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Well you have posted in no less than two threads where I answered your question at least 16 times in one of them.

[/quote]

Link?[/quote]

Here is one of them.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]alexus wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Well you have posted in no less than two threads where I answered your question at least 16 times in one of them.

[/quote]

Link?[/quote]

Here is one of them.[/quote]

hahahaha oh yes i remember reading that one, good times

My biggest newbie mistake was very irregular eating and just poor diet overall. While sometimes I’d eat a lot, many days I’d go under maintenance due to just…poor habits and all that.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]alexus wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Well you have posted in no less than two threads where I answered your question at least 16 times in one of them.

[/quote]

Link?[/quote]

Here is one of them.[/quote]

Yes, I grant you that one. Did you really answer it 16 times? I’ll need to check back for that…

Are there others?

Because since that thread I have been particularly careful to simply link wannabe bodybuilders seeking program advice to ‘do this routine instead of that dumb one’.

There is still something biting me about this issue, though.

In Oly Lifting there is controversy over generalist vs specialist training. The bulgarian approach is a good example of specialist training - train snatch, clean, jerk often. That is how you get good at snatch, clean, jerk. The polish approach (in the 60’s) was more generalist. You can watch a series of youtube clips on how they trained. They did running and jumping and swimming and so on. Of course Bulgaria did particularly well and a lot of people became convinced that specialist training was the way to go… But of course Poland produced some phenomenal lifters as well with their more generalist approach.

There is still some controversy over specialist vs generalist training… In particular about whether wannabe Oly Lifters are best starting out doing a general strength program or doing a more particular program that is totally focused on the Oly Lifts / Partials of the Oly Lifts. While the standard view (from those in the know) is probably specialist - I don’t think this is totally unanimous.

I find the history of weight training pretty fascinating. More generalist training… People did strongman type stuff and had bodybuilding physiques and did Olympic Lifting…

Though maybe the point is that while those physiques were impressive from a bodybuilding point of view at the time…

The bar has now been raised. So like the Bulgarian thing for weightlifting… Specialist training is the way to go. So if you wannabe a bodybuilder then do bodypart split programs from day 1. And learn the mind-muscle connection.

But do none of the big bodybuilder guys think that people might benefit from starting out their training a bit more generalist??

I’m just trying to understand. Sorry… I’m a pest like that.

[quote]alexus wrote:
So if you wannabe a bodybuilder then train all your muscle groups from day 1. Learn the mind-muscle connection, get stronger on every lift you do, and eat for your goals.

[/quote]

I fixed your statement to be accurate.

You don’t have to do a split, you don’t have to do TBT, there is no set rule on how many days a week you train, etc.

This isn’t a black and white situation. There are so many shades of grey. A trainee has to: a) not quit, which is unlikely and b) learn what works.

You can “build your foundation of strength” on a 4 way just as well as on SL or SS. You can squat 17,000 a week on a 4 way also. There are no rules, well unless you are trying to sell books, and then there are a shit ton of rules.

95% of people will quite before year 3. Out of the 5% left, most of them will have not made any progress outside of newb gains irrelevant of program selection, they are pussies. So that leave 2.5%… That 2.5% is going to make progress even if they have to crawl through a fire pit and sleep on a bed of nails, because they want it that bad.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]alexus wrote:
So if you wannabe a bodybuilder then train all your muscle groups from day 1. Learn the mind-muscle connection, get stronger on every lift you do, and eat for your goals.

[/quote]

I fixed your statement to be accurate.

You don’t have to do a split, you don’t have to do TBT, there is no set rule on how many days a week you train, etc.

This isn’t a black and white situation. There are so many shades of grey. A trainee has to: a) not quit, which is unlikely and b) learn what works.

You can “build your foundation of strength” on a 4 way just as well as on SL or SS. You can squat 17,000 a week on a 4 way also. There are no rules, well unless you are trying to sell books, and then there are a shit ton of rules.

95% of people will quite before year 3. Out of the 5% left, most of them will have not made any progress outside of newb gains irrelevant of program selection, they are pussies. So that leave 2.5%… That 2.5% is going to make progress even if they have to crawl through a fire pit and sleep on a bed of nails, because they want it that bad.[/quote]

…which is why he is asking all these questions…he wants to look like he wants it that bad. Someone who actually wanted it that bad would see more value in the action.

I don’t need to be worried about Bulgarian Olympic lifters or how one personal trainer thinks everyone should ignore arms for years.

Most of the people who have made the most progress act the LEAST like people on this forum as far as this is concerned. Your internet journal knowledge is useless if you can’t grasp that the key to progress is not always in the smaller details when it comes to weight lifting.

It is often in the bigger ones…the ones like consistency and the ability to actually know when you are giving everything you have, or when you are just going through the motions.

I will flat out say it makes very little sense at all to start a newb off on some completely different strategy than what works to build the biggest and strongest muscles.

Acting like I needed to do some brand routine right out the gate as if I need to work up to using a split routine is retarded…unless you are so weak you don’t have the genetics for this in the first place.

It sells books.

Let me know when it sells “huge”…because as of yet I am unimpressed with the “knowledge” on this forum.

Hmm…

Me:

Notice a problem??

(Aside from my hips rising too early, my not getting the bar moving back from the floor, my not finishing the pull, my not keeping the bar in close, my jumping forwards for the catch, and my obviously being weak as fuck)?

My femurs are too long.

Know what would help with that?

Leg mass.

God dammit I want my legs to Grow!!!

But I also need to work on my Oly technique… Most days. But squats are really hard for me because of my levers (whinge whine). Of course I do them…

(That was before I crashed and burned on the Russian Squat Routine)

But I need to figure out something else.

So yes, I am wanting to learn… And I suppose yes… I’m getting to the point of reading all the stickies on the bodybuilding forum…
But I’m not exactly your typical wannabe bodybuilder, tis true.

Thanks Countingbeans. I thought you were a jerk before, but I really do appreciate your taking the time.
Thanks Prof x…

Had no clue you were a girl.

if that’s you, you seem to be working pretty hard. What are your goals?

To go to the Olympics :slight_smile:

Naw, seriously, I have no natural ability or talent whatsoever lolz.

But I want to be the best Oly Lifter I can be. And I do want my legs to grow. Dammit. I do work hard. Though… A huge part of the problem (I suspect - but I don’t actually know much) is that 5-6 reps is ‘very high’ to me… I guess… I need to lighten the load and do more reps… Really focusing on the muscles… And probably increase the number of exercises I do for my legs… I need to look into it more.

Probably read the stickies…

And eat more, of course. Stupid noob mistakes around not getting enough protein in particular.

I personally think you need to ditch the powerlifting moves for a minute and focus on some squats, leg presses, leg extensions, leg adductor/abductors, leg curls.

Do that for a year and let me know if you think your legs still suck.

[quote]alexus wrote:

Thanks Countingbeans. I thought you were a jerk before, but I really do appreciate your taking the time.
[/quote]

I am a jerk, lol.

But you try hard, so I’d always take the time.

I swear to God I was going to post: “I bet you are a brunette with a ponytail.” on the previous page :slight_smile:

I can’t do that clean grip on front squats to save my life.

But yeah, you already know the answer, you said it yourself… there can be no leg mass if you aren’t eating enough to gain. I’m trying to get up to 240lbs right now, and I can honestly say I don’t want to eat at least half of the food I cram down every day. Gaining can be very uncomfortable. Everybody hates dieting, but in my opinion that’s the easy part.

[quote]rambodian wrote:
I think giving advice is only something you should do if you have some knowledge of the subject. Giving an opinion is somewhat different, and having a discussion is different again. In the end, I don’t really do exactly anything that I read from someone on a forum, but I do add it to the research I try to do on a particular topic and if its good advice, you will usually hear it over and over again (not to say that confirms it though), than I make a somewhat informed decision on whatever it is I’m trying to obtain.

At the end of the day, how do you really know who your chatting to on a forum, pics or not (they could be of their brother cousin etc). After a while its usually pretty easy to decipher the good info from the hoards of crap you hear, but of-course, no one wants advice from a beginner. However, if its sound advice whether they are just repeating it from somewhere else or not, how would you know?

But usually you can pick a beginner pretty easy, than again not all so called experts that are huge are very bright, so take what you read with a grain of salt as EVERYONE has an opinion on what works and what doesn’t. From my small amount of experience, A number of training techniques and principles work well, and work different for everyone.[/quote]

I agree i think you nailed it dude. Im a beginner myself and i dont know alot but a few common things like not rounding your lower bak doing sqauts and deads i do know. I think everyone should just take things with a grain of salt like u said