Bigger Dead or Squat?

pretty close to even

355 squat. probably got a 370 in me now.

335 pull . probably got a 350 in me .

5’6"…185 lbs

[quote]zenomaly wrote:
My raw dl is a little over 100 lbs more than my (lower than parallel) squat… I’ve been wondering if my squat is lagging…[/quote]

I’m the same way.

I usually high bar squat (well below parallel) and my deadlift is over 100 lbs heavier than my squat. Not only that, I constantly have to work on my squat just to maintain it, and every extra pound is a struggle. With the deadlift, I’ve stopped training all together for a year, lost 40 lbs of bodyweight, and could still pull nearly as much as I could at my peak.

I think it really just comes down to body structure (the ratio between limb length and torso length, hand size, overall weight, etc).

My squat was pretty much the same as deadlift. I think I’m more geared toward being built to squat. Then again I’m still working on correcting the technique for my conventional deadlift. Sumo deadlift is higher than squat though.
Either way I don’t like pulling conventional but I love pulling off a platform stiff leg haha if that makes sense. And I much rather pull sumo.

I find if I get all fired up for a deadlift my shitty form gets worse and I just round my back and just want to pull that mother. I’m just screaming for an injury. And I have pulled 500 before with the most round back you could imagine. :expressionless: Of course, none of that anymore lol

I squat more than I pull, both raw. Very average proportions, average height (5’11"). My grip is more than good enough.

I train mostly for squat and not for DL. I believe it’s that simple for me.

Back when I could handle a higher volume of pulling exercises (DL, Romanian, upper back) I pulled more than I squatted. Too much volume on those exercises aggravates my shoulders so I put most of my effort into squats, front squats, GMs etc

Also the deeper the squat the less weight you can have on your back.

I squat ATG and my max is 275lbs.
My max DL (haven’t max out since March) is 375lbs.

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
newbatman wrote:
my paralell squat is much higher than my deadlift…

I have no forearm grip strength…

but for you:

if your squat is lower I think you should:

1.) maybe figure out your technique better

or

2.)concentrate more on knee joint muscles in training because your deadlift being higher might have to do with back and hip joints being already stronger

Then perhaps you should focus on improving your grip strength instead of giving others advice. Having a squat that is bigger than your deadlift is not what the average raw lifter should be worried about. [/quote]

I am a defensive back in american football and my grip strength is fine for that…

why the hate of my advice…is it not accurate?

[quote]newbatman wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
newbatman wrote:
my paralell squat is much higher than my deadlift…

I have no forearm grip strength…

but for you:

if your squat is lower I think you should:

1.) maybe figure out your technique better

or

2.)concentrate more on knee joint muscles in training because your deadlift being higher might have to do with back and hip joints being already stronger

Then perhaps you should focus on improving your grip strength instead of giving others advice. Having a squat that is bigger than your deadlift is not what the average raw lifter should be worried about.

I am a defensive back in american football and my grip strength is fine for that…

why the hate of my advice…is it not accurate?[/quote]

If your grip is limiting how much you can pull, its limiting your strength. I can’t imagine that getting stronger wouldn’t make you a better athlete.

Generally speaking,(that is assuming there is not a HUGE gap between the sq and dl, and that the lifter doesn’t have freaky proportions, and that form is correct and so on…) having a deadlift that is higher than your squat is not an indicator of weakness. Since its normal to have a bigger deadlift, I don’t understand why you’d tell someone that they needed to get their squat higher than their dead.

I like the deadlift far better than squats for a lot of the reason mentioned. As far as which is more important, that’s a foolish discussion, it totally depends on what you are training for and likely both are important anyway. My main reason for preferring it is that the weight either comes up to lockout or it doesn’t so there is no gray area. Also its just more impressive to look at to me than a big squat is (both are impressive though).

Unfortunately my back is so jacked up at the moment that I can’t train either exercise… I’m lame.

The ppl saying their raw squat is higher prob aren’t going below parallel. I know you may think you are but I suspect a high squat. It may look parallel or close, but a good athletic squat will be obviously below parallel and there should be no question that it was deep when viewed from the side.

Also, I think the squat is king because it allows for the greater range of motion (deep).

I’m built with equidistance limbs in relation to my torso. I pull about 535 and squat 515 for the most part.

Uhhhhh, wow. My raw deadlift is almost exactly 200 pounds more than my raw squat. Sounds like I really need to work on my squat, eh?

  1. Form- deadlift is not as technical, easier for a new lifter to gain on this lift. Squatting requires more control and strength in certain smaller muscle groups such as hip flexors than most people have.

  2. Build- ideal proportions for a deadlifter are short torso with relatively long arms and legs, whereas for the squat individuals with a long torso and short legs have the best leverage.

  3. Weight- as you move up in weight classes, a larger waistline can lend some stability and leverage when squatting but it will get harder to get into the best position to deadlift, which is why you see some superheavyweights that have mind-boggling squats but comparatively unimpressive deadlifts.

[quote]elano wrote:
The ppl saying their raw squat is higher prob aren’t going below parallel. [/quote]

I know a couple of us (on this thread, who have claimed a higher raw squat) compete. I know IPF is not raw but personally, I make sure I’m training for their judging when I train raw.

When I started competing my Deadlift was 125-150 higher but they are getting close to eachother. I have very long arms for my heigh. Since then squats really took off but deadlift has barely moved. Once I get my work sets into the upper 4’s an old lower back injury starts acting up. I might switch to the sumo style.

[quote]Bergman wrote:
Uhhhhh, wow. My raw deadlift is almost exactly 200 pounds more than my raw squat. Sounds like I really need to work on my squat, eh?[/quote]

Seems to me that once you can lift more than 2.5xBW you aren’t making excuses or mistakes any more, you really are getting the most out of your leverages (or trying to get the most out of your gear).

But if you do manage to put up a 900lb squat sometime soon by tweaking your training, tell us how you did it!

Some people’s raw squat is the same as their deadlift or even greater.

Kirk Karwoski squatted 800X5 in training raw right before he put on a single ply suit to squat 1000X2.

His best deadlift isn’t much greater than 800lbs if he ever passed the 800lb barrier.

Pyrros Dimas squats more than he deadlifts as well. And it’s safe to assume he’s doing high-bar, atg squats.

Tom Platz squatted 675X15 in training. I don’t believe there has ever lived a human being who could deadlift from the floor 675 for 15 reps, not even Andy Bolton.

Donnie Thompson’s Raw Squat is more than his Deadlift.

Most people start out with a Deadlift that is stronger than their squat, but the world record numbers for the raw squat are higher than they are for the deadlift. The Squat has a greater strength potential. It’s not a function of being fat, or multi-ply gear, or any of that.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Some people’s raw squat is the same as their deadlift or even greater.

Kirk Karwoski squatted 800X5 in training raw right before he put on a single ply suit to squat 1000X2.

His best deadlift isn’t much greater than 800lbs if he ever passed the 800lb barrier.

Pyrros Dimas squats more than he deadlifts as well. And it’s safe to assume he’s doing high-bar, atg squats.

Tom Platz squatted 675X15 in training. I don’t believe there has ever lived a human being who could deadlift from the floor 675 for 15 reps, not even Andy Bolton.

Donnie Thompson’s Raw Squat is more than his Deadlift.

Most people start out with a Deadlift that is stronger than their squat, but the world record numbers for the raw squat are higher than they are for the deadlift. The Squat has a greater strength potential. It’s not a function of being fat, or multi-ply gear, or any of that. [/quote]

Do you have a source for that Tom Platz 675x15?

Pyross Dimas doesn’t deadlift heavy 3 times a week. Perhaps if he trained it he would be better at it.

All the other lifters you mention are Supers. Look at the raw records for <242. Every single one of them, the deadlift is higher than the squat.

I’ve posted the link before, but someone took the average of (squat - deadlift), and in general, people under ~235lbs bodyweight deadlift more than they squat, whereas people people over squat more.

The only examples I can think of where lightweights squat more than they deadlift is if they have very poor leverages, or grip is a major factor (ie. Wade Hooper, that midget at the Arnold).

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:
Do you have a source for that Tom Platz 675x15?
[/quote]

Harumf Harumf I don’t believe you Harumf Harumf

Have you seen the mans legs?

Think about it. If someone with a 32 inch waist can squat 335X15, then someone with 32 inch legs squatting 675X15 isn’t too crazy.

Just because most powerlifters under 242 Deadlift more than their Squat does not mean that the Squat is lower than the Deadlift. You need to look at the biggest men who have made every muscle as strong as possible in order to determine which lift has the greatest potential.

Donnie Thompson was the only Super-Heavyweight lifter I mentioned.

Pyrros doesn’t train the Deadlift heavy 3 times a week because no one strong can train the Deadlift heavy 3 times a week. If he trained the Deadlift heavy 3 times a week it wouldn’t catch up to his squat. He would just get weaker.

That’s one of the chief reasons why the Squat can be raised above the Deadlift: it’s easier to recover from Heavy Squatting than it is to recover form Heavy Deadlifting.

There was a point where my deadlift was 460 and my squat was 490(lol) but as soon as i taped myself squatting i saw that i was not hitting depth, it was not horrible but it was right at parallel. Once i started hitting ATG my squat was actually 420lb.

Unless you are using some kind of gear, most people will have a higher deadlift in my opinion.