[quote]slotan wrote:
Still, it seems to me this is a typical case of little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
[/quote]
It is also a case of, “Well said it!”
I want to see someone press 150lbs dumbbells on a swiss ball.
I want someone to show me how this term “functional” first began to be used by any personal trainer trying to sell something. It has gotten out of hand.
So, people who are extremely muscular and have no significant shoulder injuries all must have used swiss balls?
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
Who really cares how much you bench? For all the macho bodybuilders out there that think that pressing a lot of weight from a flat bench is the be-all and end-all of manhood, think again.
Paul Chek states that “because the bench press is performed on a flat weight lifting bench, normal movement of the shoulder blades (scapulae) is disrupted. This demands that more movement must occur in the shoulder joint itself”
And just how much functional carryover will it have to your real-life anyhow? Just how much pectoralis involment is there in typing on a keyboard or pushing a pencil?
And if you’re one of the knuckleheads on this site that’d rather trade pain free shoulders for a nice set of pecs, try pressing whilst lying on a swiss-ball. (see attached image) Your shoulders will thank you for it. [/quote]
I think you had better read a little bit more of this site before making such a judgement. You will find many articles where the obsession everyone seems to have with bench press and bicep curls is slammed and the benfits of balancing this out with rows, working the external rotators etc etc are all extolled and recommended.
Other articles show all sorts of training programs to maintain shoulder health, even more show correct bench press technique to avoid causing the problems you mentioned.
Oh, and to answer your question about pectoral muscle involvement in bench, true bench is more of a triceps exercise and doesn’t use too much of the pecs at all, and yes we do know that for hypertrophy of the pecs it is better to do dumbells for greater ROM.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
slotan wrote:
Still, it seems to me this is a typical case of little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
It is also a case of, “Well said it!”
I want to see someone press 150lbs dumbbells on a swiss ball.
I want someone to show me how this term “functional” first began to be used by any personal trainer trying to sell something. It has gotten out of hand.
So, people who are extremely muscular and have no significant shoulder injuries all must have used swiss balls?[/quote]
Yes, can the OP please explain the term “functional”? I think the whole swiss ball thing is a fad. Arnold, Lou, Frank, Sergio, Franco…these guys never used a big rubbery ball and they did OK. Just another fitness gadget. It can be incorporated into a program, but some of these guys act like your arms are going to fall off and your back is going to explode if you don’t use one. To me, it’s just another excuse to not have to lift heavy weights.
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
G.O.A.T wrote:
Have a look at his site. It is filled with useless crap like this article.
Just because you don’t understand it, doesn’t make it crap.
[/quote]
Crap is not useless to Paul Chek, and he has a ruler to prove it.
[quote]algian wrote:
Oh no! You’re right! One trainer said it’s bad for my shoulders so I think I’d better stop doing it before my shoulders explode and I grow a vagina on my forehead!!!
On a more serious note, if you are worried about shoulder health whilst benching or do feel shoulder pain whilst benching, then read Eric Cressey’s article on how to bench without killing your shoulders:
Shoulder Savers Part I:
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do;jsessionid=DD414F15BA7573188883B4E6039F8FA3.hydra?article=06-074-training
Please ignore the rubbish posted by the OP.[/quote]
If you grow a vagina on your forehead, you can be my friend.
DB
[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
CHEKonIT wrote:
G.O.A.T wrote:
Have a look at his site. It is filled with useless crap like this article.
Just because you don’t understand it, doesn’t make it crap.
Crap is not useless to Paul Chek, and he has a ruler to prove it.
[/quote]
THAT was funny.
DB
[quote]Professor X wrote:
slotan wrote:
Still, it seems to me this is a typical case of little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
It is also a case of, “Well said it!”
I want to see someone press 150lbs dumbbells on a swiss ball.
I want someone to show me how this term “functional” first began to be used by any personal trainer trying to sell something. It has gotten out of hand.
So, people who are extremely muscular and have no significant shoulder injuries all must have used swiss balls?[/quote]
you raise a very interesting point - how much weight can a swiss ball support? It’s an air-filled rubber ball for crying out loud, it’s not a truck tire.
DB
Going OT (i’m sure no one will mind 
) - do you think we should feed the trolls or starve them?
On one hand its good to educate but i believe this to be against the very soul of a troll. We should get numbers on their population trends and perhaps have a cull.
Also much like any other fantasy creature (apart from dwarves which people tell me really do exist) they probably die out when ignored.
Just a few musings dear T-members - now i have to go poo - glad those squats i do have functionally enabled me to sit down…
I have a some type of recurring injury in my neck that makes my spine go numb when I bench with my shoulder blades pulled in. I have used swiss ball dumbbell presses for rehab several times when I suffered this injury and it still allowed me to do pressing movements while I recovered. In fact after 6-8 weeks of doing exclusively neutral grip swiss ball presses I have been able to increase my strength in the bench.
The bottom line is it’s easy to be a critic of any diet or exercise until you’ve tried it. Further, good coaches try different approaches even if they defy convention and they know that they will fail. Why? Because 1 or 2 of the experiments will result in gains that will outweight the other 8 or 9 failures. It’s those 1 or 2 successes that make the difference between being the best and being like everyone else.
[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
CHEKonIT wrote:
G.O.A.T wrote:
Have a look at his site. It is filled with useless crap like this article.
Just because you don’t understand it, doesn’t make it crap.
Crap is not useless to Paul Chek, and he has a ruler to prove it.
[/quote]
Paul’s crap is not foul smelling either.
I used to be part of the militantly anti-bench, but now that I learned how to bench properly, I’m ambivalent towards it. I’d still rather be deadlifting, but it doesn’t bother me to bench. As far as it having a reputation as a shoulder wrecker, I think that if you learn how to press properly it isn’t. Your shouldler blades should be set under you before you begin te movement, so there shouldn’t be significant movement of the scapulae under load. Also, you have to not be lazy and do your accessory back work if you want to be able to bench with longevity.
Coming from someone who used to be of your ranks, I think many of you anti-benchers are just rationalizing your lack of work or progress on the press and need to man up. I did, and now I can press more then the 11 year old girls playing hopscotch outside. You should too.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Paul’s crap is not foul smelling either.[/quote]
And how would you know? On second thought…please DO NOT tell us where your nose has been!!!
I am not sure how anyone who lifts any respectable amount of weight could use a swiss ball for the bench press. It is mostly fun to just baounce on!
Insulting all Australian’s is plain ignorant. This is why when American’s travel people hate you. When you travel make sure you put a maple leaf on you backpack so you don’t get shot.
[quote]conorh wrote:
I used to be part of the militantly anti-bench, but now that I learned how to bench properly, I’m ambivalent towards it. I’d still rather be deadlifting, but it doesn’t bother me to bench. As far as it having a reputation as a shoulder wrecker, I think that if you learn how to press properly it isn’t. Your shouldler blades should be set under you before you begin te movement, so there shouldn’t be significant movement of the scapulae under load. Also, you have to not be lazy and do your accessory back work if you want to be able to bench with longevity.
Coming from someone who used to be of your ranks, I think many of you anti-benchers are just rationalizing your lack of work or progress on the press and need to man up. I did, and now I can press more then the 11 year old girls playing hopscotch outside. You should too.[/quote]
I don’t barbell bench press anymore because I think it can restrict advancement once you move into heavier weights unless you have a GREAT spotter who you can trust. I think it is a great exercise for beginners and up until a certain point. For me, once I hit a certain weight, I switched to most dumbbells and then to HS machines. Sticking with the barbell bench would have held back my development.
[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Paul’s crap is not foul smelling either.
And how would you know? On second thought…please DO NOT tell us where your nose has been!!![/quote]
It’s all part of Chek certification. It’s all worth it, since my strength is finally functional now that I gave him all of my money.
[quote]ConanSpeaks wrote:
I have a some type of recurring injury in my neck that makes my spine go numb when I bench with my shoulder blades pulled in. I have used swiss ball dumbbell presses for rehab several times when I suffered this injury and it still allowed me to do pressing movements while I recovered. In fact after 6-8 weeks of doing exclusively neutral grip swiss ball presses I have been able to increase my strength in the bench.
The bottom line is it’s easy to be a critic of any diet or exercise until you’ve tried it. Further, good coaches try different approaches even if they defy convention and they know that they will fail. Why? Because 1 or 2 of the experiments will result in gains that will outweight the other 8 or 9 failures. It’s those 1 or 2 successes that make the difference between being the best and being like everyone else. [/quote]
Good point, however blanket statements about bench press destroying shoulders or swiss balls being better for chest development are rediculous. I don’t want to be on the ball with heavy db’s when I exceed it’s max capacity and it blows. Imagine 270lbs Prof X with 120lb db’s. Can the ball support that? I don’t know. I know a bench can. The ball has it’s place, but I think it’s an unnecessary gadget. I’m tired of the “if you don’t use a swiss ball then something bad is going to happen” hype.
[quote]summa wrote:
I am not sure how anyone who lifts any respectable amount of weight could use a swiss ball for the bench press. It is mostly fun to just baounce on!
Insulting all Australian’s is plain ignorant. This is why when American’s travel people hate you. When you travel make sure you put a maple leaf on you backpack so you don’t get shot.[/quote]
Austrailian’s hate New Zealanders, English hate the Irish, Franch hate everyone, everyone hates Americans, Canadians hate French Canadians, Chinese hate Japanese…it’s all stereotyping. On a personal basis, we are all pretty much the same. When I went to Leningrad and Moscow back in 1985 (they were still the bad guys back then), I realized that the Russians were exactly like Americans. They just have a different form of government. They like to have fun, love their families, like to drink, play sports…but as an American, I was conditioned to hate them commie bastards. It’s all perception. Lighten up on the nationalist name calling.
[quote]summa wrote:
Insulting all Australian’s is plain ignorant… when American’s travel people hate you.[/quote]
The juxtaposition of these two statements is (in stark contrast to their author) pure genius.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
conorh wrote:
I don’t barbell bench press anymore because I think it can restrict advancement once you move into heavier weights unless you have a GREAT spotter who you can trust. I think it is a great exercise for beginners and up until a certain point. For me, once I hit a certain weight, I switched to most dumbbells and then to HS machines. Sticking with the barbell bench would have held back my development.[/quote]
By holding back your development do you just mean that without a spotter you didn’t feel safe going heavy enough to get a decent workout in?
[quote]PGJ wrote:
summa wrote:
English hate the Irish, [/quote]
That’s not true, it’s the French we don’t like!