Vaccine mandates are comming to my country as well. Guess who is going berserk on protests.
I wonder why it is being done now - after all, Bulgaria has only the 4th highest death rate in the world with less than 20% of the population vaccinated. I’d say there’s no rush until you start vying for the top spot.
Meanwhile, the Portuguese who have vaccinated almost 90% of those over 12 only think they’re living a normal life again, but they’re actually Bill Gates’ slaves.
3 Likes
We have been living normal lives as well. We had lockdowns for about 3 months. I dont know what our death percentage is, we have 22 000 deaths. That is like the people that die in an hour in US. So please with your boring sarcasm.
Cut the crap. You’re fourth in the world in deaths per million inhabitants, just below the former kinsmen you betrayed before Ilinden.
And things are going from bad to worse. Don’t bullshit me about “living normally”. If you’re not sufficiently vaccinated, you cannot “live as before”. Even the fucking Russians had to opt for another lockdown due to low vaccination rates and if there’s one thing you can say about them is that they don’t give a fuck about the bodycount.
1 Like
Lmao. Some people really live in another world. Yes, we are living normal lives. We had lockdowns when it started. Afterwards we had nothing. The government was unable to enforce mandates. Even at the moment the restaurants and bars are meant to close at 11, but they work until they want. Nobody realy cares.
Yesterday there were protests. Today the green pass starts. I wonder how long it will last. People know that the current health minister needs to be punished. Yesterday the education minister was attacked for mandating vaccines on children. Few hours later the green pass idea was changed to starting from 18 years old.
I believe we may have a Lucashenko case.
You want to RIOT over a vaccine mandate? You’re aware mandates aren’t anything new right?
Now… I don’t agree with the mandates, I think businesses ought to be able to decide for themselves as to whether they will admit unvaccinated patrons.
I could go into detail over how I believe this should be handled, but I’m not qualified to call the shots and I’m sure most won’t want to hear it given how much I’ve been bitching about Australia for the past few months (leaving in one month!)
I don’t think this is worth risking your safety over. Compare Bulgaria to Aus covid policy
And they’re leaving a TON out… It’s worse than they’ve made it out to be.
I am aware mandates are not anything new. But what we have at the moment are immunity booster shots that have less than 50% protection against Delta. On top of that after 4 months after the second shot, that immunity drops down to 20%.
You do not mandate and limit my freedoms, while creating a basic social credit system on these shots. I am not calling them vaccines, because they are obviously not. Please do not bring flu shots. We are not trading them for freedom.
I suggest you go back and re-read the literature on covid vaccines
Protection varies by age, and for younger people the shot appears to be around 60% effective at preventing infection.
In terms of reducing the risk of severe illness and death, the decrease is 90-95% from baseline. A booster shot further decreases it from that baseline exponentially, hence why booster shots are a good idea for the elderly and the immunocompromised.
Immunity does wane, but that is the case with the flu shot… Speaking of which, the covid shot is more effective at preventing covid infection than the flu shot it at preventing the flu.
This could be like hepatitis, where three shots are required… Or this could end up being like the flu
I happen to believe covid will become less lethal over time. SARS and MERS eventually burnt out due to lethality + restrictions. It is not in a viruses best interest to kill the host as it needs to replicate.
Coronaviruses historically don’t have a rapid rate of mutation. They do mutate, but substantial mutations are rare. Chances are we will find even more virulent strains over time, however I suspect the lethality will decrease
If somehow we find a far more lethal strain AND a more virulent strain akin to SARS/MERS (lethality) with the infectivity at or exceeding that of the delta variant the world is fucked.
The biggest problem with covid is the prospect of hospitals filling up. If hospitals are full, Joe can’t receive treatment for his myocardial infarction. If hospitals are full, doctors have to start playing judge jury and executioner, reserving beds for those who are less likely to die.
My perspective is… Don’t mandate vaccines, rather prioritise the vaccinated when it comes to hospitalisation. If you’re sick and unvaccinated, those who require immediate medical attention who ARE vaccinated will be given a bed and you’ll be sent home.
If someone who is vaccinated comes in requiring emergency intervention, beds are full and you’re taking one up… Hospital should have the right to kick you out for the time-being.
There should be (and are in many countries) covid specific wards, unvaccinated people should be denied treatment from non covid specific wards if their treatment is covid related. If you are dying/really struggling… Go home with some morphine (how fun!), that will ease the discomfort and panic associated with dying.
We do this with smokers, diabetics/obese people and drug addicts with organ transplants and other life saving procedures. It’s not authoritarian, we aren’t saying you CAN’T live your life because you aren’t vaccinated… I’m not saying you can’t take your steroids, smoke your cigarettes, drink your alcohol or inject your desomorphine (krokodil)
I’m saying if shit hits the fan, you’ll be at the bottom of the list as with vaccines it is VERY easy to roll up your sleeve and take a shot that substantially reduces the risk of complications.
Drug addiction is iffy, as most who turn to drugs have underlying issues so depending on the context many have my sympathy. But you’ve still willingly destroyed your body… Back of the line for organ transplants. Note this ideology need not apply for treatment that doesn’t potentially result in the death of others who are having treatment withheld so you can live.
If I say… Eat KFC three times per day and inject enormous amounts of testosterone and stanozolol (dyslipidemia in a vial) yet have a heart attack that damages my heart so badly I now have end stage heart failure and require a transplant, I wouldn’t expect to be prioritised. I’d still reserve the right to a transplant and whatever treatment is available that isn’t at the expense of others, but I’d understand if an available heart was given to a 17 year old boy with a congenital condition that led him to having heart failure as opposed to someone who made stupid decisions on his own accord leading to downstream consequences.
Hence, I don’t like the idea of mandates at ALL, but I am for medical prioritisation of others in the advent you decide to refuse vaccination.
My exceptions to these rules would include young kids/children and teenagers who should have a whole life ahead of them.
Keep in mind… In Australia a popular body of thought is “those who don’t get vaccinated should be confined to their homes forever. If they leave and enter a business, they should be imprisoned!”.
That’s popular here, and I believe NSW is imposing jail sentences for unvaccinated people entering various establishments.
1 Like
Nothing to reread. Phizer shot offers 45 percents to Delta, waning to 20 after 4 months of the 2nd shot. That is latest research. Was published even on CNN.
You dont mandate shit and take liberties based on that. A healthy young child may have way better immunity without antibodies and vaccine in comparisson to your obesse, vaccinated adult.
This is ridiculous. And it is literally a social credit system testing your compliance. It is not a medical saving system.
1 Like
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03777-9
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext
All studies I’ve posted refute this. You can cherry pick one piece of literature… If it even exists. But the pool of evidence is indicative your statement is false.
You’re also deliberately skewing the narrative. Perhaps you’ll still get it, but the reduction in the chance of hospitalisation (90% + from baseline, with boosters dramatically reducing the risk from an already substantially mitigated baseline ) is beyond significant
A vaccine doesn’t necessarily gift you absolute immunity. Saying “that’s not a vaccine” is simply false, because the covid shot is actually quite effective. As I’ve specified it’s more effective than the yearly flu shot.
As specified, I am against mandates. Read my alternative. My alternative doesn’t deny anyone liberty, but merely asks you take accountability for your own actions.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01548-7
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2113864
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2114290
These vaccines are far more effective than you make them out to be. The incidence of SAE’s aren’t much higher than contemporary mainstream vaccines either. We have phase I,II,III trials and postmarketing reports. I can understand why people are concerned, but from my perspective the concern isn’t entirely justified relative to the risk of catching covid while unvaccinated (unless you are below the age of thirty and healthy). To which I’d still say, you take the flu shot but the risk of dying from the flu/incurring serious, long term complications when young is minimal because… Catching the flu sucks…
1 Like
I dont care about hospitalization rate as long as mandates do not care that Children will almost never be hospitalized. With mandates they argue immunization and spreading the virus. I present you the amazing immunization vaccines provide.
Hospitalisation rate for children is between 0.3-0.6%, comparable to the flu. That’s around 1 in every 200 children.
Death amongst kids however is extremely rare. If hospitals fill up though I suppose this could increase if prioritisation isn’t granted.
"One study from Israel covered 4,800 health care workers and showed antibody levels wane rapidly after two doses of vaccine “especially among men, among persons 65 years of age or older, and among persons with immunosuppression.”
So… Like the flu shot? But still superior. The flu shot is poorly immunogenic within the elderly.
As to waning immunity… So? Once again… Like the flu shot?
As specified, I’m not advocating for vaccine mandates. But you need to put this into perspective. You’re all pissed off about having to get a vaccine, I’ve been confined to my home and/or my dormitory (couldn’t even wander around campus for more than 1 hour/day) for the better part of eighteen months… People have been stranded overseas for two years without a source of income.
Children have died due to interstate border closures mediating the inability to hop over from a border town to another hospital. I don’t agree with mandates, especially when business owners now have to act as policemen. Why not look into voting for a political party that won’t require mandates?
I’m not opposed to rioting if the riot is in response to serious violations of human rights, legitimate oppression etc. Rioting over a vaccine mandate to me screams “I’m privileged and don’t know what legitimate authoritarianism is”.
I don’t like autocratic measures as it mediates a slippery slope. But say you are vaccinated… What can’t you do? Can you travel, leave the home, go to work, see your family? Yes?
Great, then what are you complaining for. Victoria is having a “freedom day” tomorrow that isn’t much of a freedom day as it still entails some fairly tough restrictions… And Australia is more vaccinated than a good portion of Europe/the entire US at this point.
New Zeland has specified they will only START to think about easing lockdowns once elligable population is 90-95% fully vaccinated. Even then, NZ didn’t break the “world record” for longest lockdown and then exceed that record by a fairly large margin.
If you are fully vaccinated, but the government still won’t let you rake in enough money to take care of your family… If you are fully vaccinated but you can’t leave the state/country or even travel more than 5-15km from home… If you can be beaten by police and fined 10,000$+ for leaving your home after 9pm
Then you have my stamp of riot approval.
see this is where we are all going. If you think people of power will let go, you are wrong. Now itb s 2 shots, after this winter and seeing how innefective the vaccines are, there will be a 3rd. Then what a 4th? When does it end?
For me it ends now. This is my tipping point.
2 Likes
When did I ever say this? Don’t put words in my mouth
How have you inferred me saying “I don’t support mandates” to mean “I support mandates?”
I support prioritising covid beds for the vaccinated.
Ineffective vaccines that are more effective than the yearly flu shot… Vaccines that can and likely will be tweaked to be delta specific…
I had my flu shot last year that doesn’t even guarantee I won’t get the flu! This year I have to get ANOTHER ONE? When does it end?
You don’t have to get vaccinated, at least I don’t think it ought to be federally mandatory. I think businesses deserve to reserve the right to choose who they will let enter their premesis and I believe in healthcare prioritisation. I think it’s not the smartest choice to avoid vaccination.
If you’re young, chances are it’ll be like the flu… The flu sucks, you’ll be out of work for like a week… No working out… Who would want that?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02532-4
Here is more. Apperantly the % for protection of hospitalization is wanning as well.
Lastly the flu shot is not mandatory where I come from. Please do not bring it to the discussion. I will end it that is called a shot for a reason, just like the word vaccine is not used to describe the flue shot on my language as well. But we end it at the flu shot is not mandatory, so it is not comparable.
Flu shot is mandatory for a child to attend school in various societies.
Which are these societies??? Come on man. The flu shot can not be compared to vaccine mandates, wherever you suggest they are mandatory for the most vulnerable.
Because one is a shot and another is a vaccine, right?
I’m going to attribute this statement to poor English comprehension skills and not ignorance…