T Nation

Bible Stories?

[quote]lixy wrote:
I’m not Christian but I believe in many of them.[/quote]

Well, it doesn’t hurt that most of the stories in the Hebrew and Christian Bibles also appear in the Qur’an, does it?

[quote]Adamsson wrote:
lixy wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:
I read that 48% of Americans believe the fairy tales in the bible are tales of ‘actual’ events.

Even better, one in four Americans say Jesus may return in 2007. No wonder Bush don’t seem to care too much about global warming, nuclear holocaust and the risk of exacerbating terrorist threats by waging unnecessary wars.

[i]Twenty-five percent of Americans believe it is at least somewhat likely that Jesus Christ will return to Earth in 2007, a new poll from the Associated Press and AOL News shows.

The poll, conducted by the international polling firm Ipsos, looked at the public?s predictions about what will occur in 2007.

Pollsters found that 11 percent of those surveyed said it is ?very likely? that Jesus will return to Earth this year. An additional 14 percent said it was ?somewhat likely.? .[/i]

“Even better, one in four Americans say Jesus may return in 2007.”

vs.

“Twenty-five percent of Americans believe it is at least somewhat likely”

“may return”

“at least somewhat likely”…

well… lixy is at it again… :smiley: The troll from the deep swedish forests. So, is it time for a “is lixy really swedish” quiz again…?[/quote]

And monkeys may fly out of my butt.

Does anyone take any of lixy’s polls remotely seriously?

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
Is there something fundamentally different about how religion is practiced in australia such that faith is not required? [/quote]

I find it interesting, though, that a large percentage of American Christians accept without questions the literal veracity of stories such as the six-day creation, the global flood, the sun halting in the middle of the sky so Joshua could continue his battle, Jonah swallowed by the fish, Daniel in the lions’ den and the fiery furnace, et cetera ad nauseam, while an even greater percentage of Jews, for and by whom the stories were originally written, no longer do.

[quote]For the record, I don’t give the bible any more credence than I do any other english translation of an ancient text (ex: The History of the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides).

[/quote]
Thukydides was a fucking Athenian, so he can’t be trusted to give a truthful and unbiased account anyway. :wink:

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:
I really want to know how anyone can believe them as actual events. I didn’t know so many people thought as ‘actual events’ and I was raised with religion in my life.

Will anyone admit to being a true believer?

Twenty-six percent of Australians are anglican, 26% percent are roman catholic and 24% are other christian.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_coun.htm

Is there something fundamentally different about how religion is practiced in australia such that faith is not required? For the record, I don’t give the bible any more credence than I do any other english translation of an ancient text (ex: The History of the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides).

[/quote]

Why cant we question this stuff? Its the same here, but I always thought as the stories in the bible as metaphor’s.

I only recently discovered many people actually believe that Noah rounded up 2 of every animal and and put them on his ship, then re distributed them back into their ecosystems. 50 000 animals and a 1 million insects. Absolutely amazing achievement.

I don’t want to poke fun at believers, I just want to understand how anyone could possible believe that is a true story.

And then poke fun…:slight_smile:

Just to clear something up. This isnt a rip American to bits thread. It just happens that I got the statistic for USA.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Is there something fundamentally different about how religion is practiced in australia such that faith is not required?

I find it interesting, though, that a large percentage of American Christians accept without questions the literal veracity of stories such as the six-day creation, the global flood, the sun halting in the middle of the sky so Joshua could continue his battle, Jonah swallowed by the fish, Daniel in the lions’ den and the fiery furnace, et cetera ad nauseam, while an even greater percentage of Jews, for and by whom the stories were originally written, no longer do.

For the record, I don’t give the bible any more credence than I do any other english translation of an ancient text (ex: The History of the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides).

Thukydides was a fucking Athenian, so he can’t be trusted to give a truthful and unbiased account anyway. :wink:

[/quote]

I’m not going to blindly follow stories of a supernatural being that get angry if I don’t do as he commands.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Well, it doesn’t hurt that most of the stories in the Hebrew and Christian Bibles also appear in the Qur’an, does it?[/quote]

One might even say that it helps.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
And monkeys may fly out of my butt.[/quote]

Whatever turns you on…

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Does anyone take any of lixy’s polls remotely seriously?[/quote]

If you’re questionnig the credibility of an established agency like Ipsos, you’re beyond repair.

If you are alluding to the sentence I wrote before quoting the piece then bear in mind that I worded the poll the way it appeared on numerous news outlets. Sentiationalism? Yes. Misrepresentation? Heck no!

http://religion.netscape.com/story/2007/01/04/25-percent-of-polled-americans-believe-jesus-will-return-in-07
http://agaperevolution.com/2007/01/12/one-in-four-say-jesus-may-return-in-2007/

As you can see, some even went with “will” instead of the more accurate “may” that I used.

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Is there something fundamentally different about how religion is practiced in australia such that faith is not required?

I find it interesting, though, that a large percentage of American Christians accept without questions the literal veracity of stories such as the six-day creation, the global flood, the sun halting in the middle of the sky so Joshua could continue his battle, Jonah swallowed by the fish, Daniel in the lions’ den and the fiery furnace, et cetera ad nauseam, while an even greater percentage of Jews, for and by whom the stories were originally written, no longer do.

For the record, I don’t give the bible any more credence than I do any other english translation of an ancient text (ex: The History of the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides).

Thukydides was a fucking Athenian, so he can’t be trusted to give a truthful and unbiased account anyway. :wink:

I’m not going to blindly follow stories of a supernatural being that get angry if I don’t do as he commands. [/quote]

A lot of those “stories” were written by humans as part of recording history.
You need to read the New Testament first in order to understand the Old, if you’re really interessted give it a try, however if you’re mind is already made up then it’s your loss.

Note that the story of the global flood is not solely a Judeo-Christian myth. Obviously, Noah’s ark appears in the Qur’an, but an earlier account (predating the book of Genesis) also appears in the Mesopotamian/Babylonian epic poem Gilgamesh, as well as the Greek myth of Deukalion.

It’s entirely possible that the Tigris and Euphrates valley was deluged by unseasonably heavy rainfall one year, and that all of these myths are an offshoot of that actual event.

Just for fun, though, here’s a look at the logistics of Noah’s mythical accomplishment.

The ark is described as 300 cubits long, the cubit being a unit of measurement from elbow to outstretched fingertip. Many different cubits were in use in the ancient world, but all were essentially similar, and most literalists agree that the ark was approximately 137 meters (450 feet) in length.

This is considerably longer than the largest wooden vessels ever built in historical times: according to certain sources, the early 15th-century Chinese admiral Zheng He may have used junks 122 meters (400 feet) long, but the schooner Wyoming, launched in 1909 and the largest documented wooden-hulled ship ever built, measured only 100 meters (329.5 feet) and needed iron cross-bracing to counter warping and a steam pump to handle a serious leak problem.

The construction and use histories of these late 19th-century wooden European ships indicated that they were already pushing or had exceeded the practical limits for the size of wooden ships.

The ark would have had a gross volume of about 40,000 cubic meters (1.5 million cubic feet), a displacement a little less than half that of the Titanic at about 22,000 tons, and total floor space of around 9,300 square meters (100,000 square feet).

However, just to hold a male and female specimen all of the species of beetles, the ark would have had to be twice this size.

The true believer should ask him or herself whether eight humans, even with divine inspiration, could have actually cared for millions of species of birds, fish, animals and insects (while also sailing the ark), how the special dietary needs of some of the more exotic animals could have been catered for, how the creatures could have been prevented from preying on each other, questions of lighting, ventilation, and temperature control, hibernation, the survival and germination of seeds, the position of freshwater and saltwater fish, the question of what the animals would have eaten immediately after leaving the ark, how they traveled (or were gathered) from all over the world to board the ark and how they could have returned to their far-flung habitats across the Earth’s bare, flood-devastated terrain, and how two or a few members of a species could have provided enough genetic variety to avoid inbreeding and reconstitute a healthy population.

Of course, this is a well-hashed-out debate, and the true believer will have answers for all of these questions already. I have found, furthermore, that he will not let little things like the laws of physics and biology interfere with his faith. Just like our politicians, inasmuch as God wrote these laws, he seems not to be bound by them.

I think I need to clear this up, I believe the storys, but I also like to look up the actuall translations like 6 days should have been 6 ages.

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
I don’t want to poke fun at believers, I just want to understand how anyone could possible believe that is a true story.

And then poke fun…:)[/quote]

Strange how religious people seem to exhibit more tolerance on this thread.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[…] Just like our politicians, inasmuch as God wrote these laws, he seems not to be bound by them.[/quote]

Brilliant post.

[quote]John S. wrote:
I think I need to clear this up, I believe the storys, but I also like to look up the actuall translations like 6 days should have been 6 ages.[/quote]

Does it matter if it’s 6 nanoseconds, hours days or centuries? Once you acknowledge the omnipotence of God, such issues become totally irrelevant.

For the sake of completion, the Quran reports 6 days as well. It fails to mention the Almighty’s weekly recovery period though.

Lixy, it was he rested on the 7th, thats one day not a week.

edit sorry for nit picking, really no need for that on this thread.

[quote]John S. wrote:
I think I need to clear this up, I believe the storys, but I also like to look up the actuall translations like 6 days should have been 6 ages.[/quote]

Big deal, whats God done lately?

Creation of israel. A bunch of stuff in peoples lives.

[quote]John S. wrote:
Lixy, it was he rested on the 7th, thats one day not a week.

edit sorry for nit picking, really no need for that on this thread.[/quote]

Hakuna matata!

Weekly \Week"ly, a.

  1. Of or pertaining to a week, or week days; as, weekly labor.
    [1913 Webster]
    2. Coming, happening, or done once a week; hebdomadary; as, a weekly payment; a weekly gazette.
    [1913 Webster]

A daily workout doesn’t necessarily have to last 24 hours to be called daily, now does it? (e.g: The daily show)

Linguistics is NOT nit picking. It’s an integral part of our collective psyche that’s essential to human interaction. Err…on second thought, maybe not. Not everybody’s interested in how his/her body/computer/phone/car works. I guess I’m part of the damned few.

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Big deal, whats God done lately?[/quote]

What’s your dad done for you lately?

[quote]John S. wrote:
Lixy, it was he rested on the 7th, thats one day not a week.
[/quote]

John: note that “weekly” means “done or occurring once a week.” It does not mean “lasting one week.”

It is your nits that need picking, not lixy’s.

Shit! you beat me to it.