T Nation

Bias against males

I was reading an article from the New York Times today that caught my attention ,it was about how a study found that a drug that was a combination of estrogen and progestin," caused small increases in breast cancer,heart atttacks,strokes and blood clots.Those risks outweighed the drugs’ benefits-a small decrease in hip fractures and a decrease in colorectal cancer." The article was pretty extensive and spoke about the history of hormone replacement for women and how it promised to make women who are undergoing or had menopause more feminine.


The question I have is WHY HAS HORMONE REPLACEMENT FOR WOMEN THAT PROMISES TO MAKE WOMEN MORE WOMENLY AND YOUNGER BEING UNIVERSALY ACCEPTED FOR YEARS AND STEROIDS THAT PROMISE TO MAKE A MAN MORE MANLY HAVE BEEN THOUGHT OF AS EVIL,I DON’T TAKE STEROIDS AND DON’T PLAN TO I BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE SIGNIFIGANT HEALTH RISKS,AND I AM YOUNG. BUT THERE IS A DOUBLE STANDARD WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLES PERCEPTIONS OF ESTROGEN HORMONAL REPLACMENT VS MALE HORMONAL REPALCEMENT SUCH AS STEROIDS . THE ONLY ANSWER I CAN THINK OF IS THAT THERE IS A BIAS THAT EXITS AGAINST BEING MASCULINE IN OUR SOCEITY, AND THAT MALE PREDUJICE IS A REAL PROBLEM IN SOCIETY.ANY THOUGHTS OR REASON WHY THE DOUBLE STANDARD FOR THESE TYPES OF HORMONAL DRUGS EXISTS.

The biggest reason I can think of why the standard is there is because steroids are used recreationally, whereas the estrogen replacement therapy is prescribed by a doctor. I don’t think many people come down on steroids when they are prescribed for medical reasons (low T levels, atrophy, etc.). Personally, I haven’t heard of woman shootin’ up E in the locker rooms.

I think men should be as masculine as possible. I mean, seriously, there are nowhere near enough virile men in this world–maybe there is some sort of attitude that discriminates against manliness, but then, I think every group of people may be looked down upon by some other group of people. It’s human nature to categorize and judge.

But what really needs to be noted is that while hormones may help a girl appear and feel physically more appealing, a major reason hormone research has been pursued aggressively is the fact that balanced hormones can decrease cancer and heart disease risks as well as risks for depression and other nasty things. And steroids–well, steroids don’t really do that for men.

Plus, some of the hottest, most masculine men I know are drug free. I don’t believe that society thinks men who abuse steroids are more masculine than strong, secure, self-disciplined individuals, so not supporting steroids publicly does not imply a bias against masculinity.

Lastly, if you’re going to freak out about a bias against men’s enhancement products, then come freak out with me about another serious issue of bias: the issue of insurance covering Viagara but not birth control. What the f**k is that about? That stuff gets expensive, and guys, you want women to feel confident about not getting knocked up at random. Trust me!

Damn…That was loud…Make no sense to me either. I 've curious about that myself all else being equal, T and E are the same type of treatment, just different hormones.

What in the hell are you talking about? This is a joke right? Steroids don’t make men more appear and feel more physically appealing?? That they don’t help with depression, health issues etc.??? You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Testosterone(a steroid) use, not abuse can and does make men appear and feel more physically appealing. It increases lean muscle mass and helps preserve it while dieting. After age 26 “hormone levels” (again Testosterone) begin to decrease rapidly. Leading to loss of lean mass, and gain of adipose tissue. Which in turn CAN lead to loss of self esteem/ depression and other health threats, heart disease, cancer etc. Proper education is the key not misrepresentaion. You’ve obviously have got yours from the sensationalized uneducated media. You know the one that calls Creatine a steroid. Next time you comment on a subject like this, you need to make sure you have all of your proverbial ducks in a row. Especially, on a web site named TESTOSTERONE. James

Easy there, James; you’re pretty defensive. Maybe a little too much testosterone?
Sorry–didn’t mean to joke around about something you’re obviously very serious about. That’s cool. I’m not into steroids, so I haven’t done any research; though that was not the crux of my original post. Reread for more meaning. The title of this thread, “Bias” is a great topic for discussion, especially in the fitness world. By the way, is there a bias against naturals here? Until your post, I hadn’t been under the impression that this is a board just for lifters who imbibe in steroids.

Hey,
HRT is prescribed THERAPEUTICALLY with the objective to reduce the many, many UNCOMFORTABLE symptoms that can negatively impact a woman’s health (i.e. hot flashes, psychological symptoms, osteoporosis, etc.). They don’t make a woman more “womanly” as you put it.

Sorry to break it to you…if anything, medical science has an incredible bias AGAINST WOMEN. Many more medical studies are done with young men as subjects than women. That’s just plain fact. The pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics of drugs (how drugs are metabolized and behave in your body) are better understood for men than women. It just goes on; that’s why we just found out NOW that HRT may carry significant risks.
peace,
a guy who knows science

Sorry, hormone replacement for women has nothing to do with making her ‘more womanly’ it helps reduce the problems women face at menopause. It is also ALWAYS doctor perscribed, and I doubt you can find an instance where it was abused for recreational purposes. (meaning: non-medical reasons)

I understand that T is important for men's health, but unfortunatly a few bad apples have spoiled the whole bunch and the 'steriod freaks' have ruined the image of striods. When T is prescribed by a doc no one comments about the horrible effects of steroids, when it's being shot up in mega doses in the locker room it raises a few questions.

And can we avoid the 'double standard' issue involving men vs. women? Gender bias in medicine is more FOR men than against them.

As Chris Shugart pointed out, roids are illegal. Except when prescribed by a doctor, usually to aid in injury recovery. But I could easily get a doctor to prescribe estrogen to me to help change my sex. What’s up with that?

just bee you said"a major reason hormone research has been pursued aggressively is the fact that balanced hormones can decrease cancer and heart disease risks as well as risks for depression and other nasty things. And steroids–well, steroids don’t really do that for men"Just Bee no offense or any thing you must not have read the post clearly(just skimmed over it) or heard the news recently about a estrogen and progesterone treatment increasing the likelyhood of breast cancer and blood clots and heart attacks and how many are questioning the saftey of such drugs.

No, there isn’t any bias against naturals, on this board. The nature of your post didn’t sound like you were joking either, hence my responce. It sounded like you were severly uneducated in the topic of mens hormone therapy. In my opinion women and teenagers shouldn’t use them, too many adverse effects. However, if a man has been educated with all the information available, he should be able to make his own decisions. I don’t want you to not comment or read this boared anymore, so please educate yourself. I look forward to all your future responces.

James did you read the whole post?Maybe I have to write more clearly.James are you upset because I said steroids have signifigant side effects?which they do.I didn’t say any where in the post that I was against anybody using hormonal therapy or steroids,that wasn’t my point.

sorry thought you were responding to my post james.Stupid of me!

To those of you who believe there is a bias against women in medical research, do you have facts supporting your belief or are you just repeating what you’ve been told by the pro-female anti-male mainstream media?

In an October 2000 article, the medical journal Controlled Clinical Trials indicated the following: In the 1980s and 1990s, all-female cancer research trials outnumbered all–male ones more than two to one. From 1966 to 1986, there were over 400 clinical trials on breast cancer and only 121 on prostate cancer. In 1990, the National Cancer Institute spent $$81 million on breast cancer AND ONLY $13.2 MILLION on prostate cancer, which causes nearly as many deaths.

Furthermore, men’s enrollment in National Institute For Health funded studies dropped from 45 percent of the total in 1994 to 32 percent in 1998, even though men make up 49 percent of the population. In cancer research, men now account for only 29 percent oof the subjects.

If there’s a bias against women in medical research, tell me why men live on the average of 5.5 years less than women (without resorting to chauvanistic,sexist notions such as women’s physical, mental, spiritual, etc superiority). If any other subset of the population (i.e. blacks) has a lower life expectancy, it is labelled a public health crisis, but when it’s men, it’s just shrugged off as inevitable.

Says a lot about how this society values men in relation to women, doesn’t it?

Men, contact your representatives in Congress to find out how they stand on the men’s health bill introduced by Rep. Randy Cunningham of California. I’m sure some Congresspeople will be suprised to hear about the bill. EDUCATE THEM. Tell them its high time this counrty took men’s health issues as seriously as women’s. Maybe then men’s life expectancy will catch up to women’s and we will be closer to true gender equity in this country.

Once again, Michelle is an idiot!

Oh, now THERE’S an intelligent statement! I’m an idiot based on what? My opinion that legal hormone replacement prescribed by a doctor is not gender biased? or because I think that steriod abuse is part of the cause of the bad ‘rap’ steroids get?

Michelle is right. Hormone replacement therapy for women is prescribed for various ailments such as hot flashes, osteoporosis and vaginal dryness. By the same token, T-replacement therapy is often prescribed to alleviate various ailments attributed to low testosterone, but no where close to the levels necessary to pack on muscle, which is what I gather is the crux of this thread. Although you can find exceptions, most studies are done on white males. I agree that there is a bias against women, if anything. Especially if you are a minority race woman, there is very little specific research done on your behalf.

Its cool man, I ain’t made at cha. Really though, steroids CAN have adverse side effects in men, but are more prevailent and damaging to teenagers and women. In men the most “feared” side effects are; hair loss/gain in the wrong places which can be conflicted with finastride or proscar, Gyno, but with an antiaromatase ie.Arimidex, Cytraden or an estrogen antagonist ie. Clomid, Nolvadex the occurance is virtually nonexistant, testicular atrophy, HCG always does the trick. let me stop here without going too far into this, I’m just wanting to let you know that I am well aware of the “possible” side effects. However, smart and educated useage, NOT ABUSE can be very benificial with minimal side effects or health risks. Any other questions and or comments on this matter please refer to the steroids/other drugs section. Where as myself and all of my steriod monkey, wifebeating, dog kicking, metal banging compadres can answer your question more thoughtfully. Thank you have a nice day :slight_smile:

I was under the impression that hormonal therapy for women undergoing menopause was also used to make them feel younger and more womenly because of their aging in addition to alleviating symptoms of menopause.

Hormone therapy for women is not to make them feel more ‘womanly’ it is to make symptoms of menopause go away. Does this make the woman feel younger? You’d have to ask a women going through it.

Hormones perscribed for menopause are for medicinal purposes, just like the hormones perscribed for low T. Perhaps, if men want steriods for cosmetic purposes - bigger muscles - they shoulc visit a doctor that specializes in cosmetic medicine.