T Nation

Beware of Ostarine - Need Help With Gyno!


#1

Hey guys, I'm new the site. I've never done an AAS cycle. Very tempting but was always scared away by the sides. About a month and a half ago I got my hands on some Ostarine (SARMS), for research purposes of course, thinking the chances of gyno were slim to none. Right? Wrong!

I did a fair amout of reading first, and basically everyone said an AI or SERM is not necessary. I ordered some Form XT anyway. I started taking 12.5mg ED, and like 4-5 days in my nips started itching and I started developing what I thought was just extra fat. I felt around for lumps, but didnt really feel anything. The next day both nipples were getting puffy and looked much more feminine than normal.

That day, I stopped the ostarine and started the Form XT. I also got my hands on some letrozole about a week later and switched to taking that. Have been taking 2.5mg ED for two weeks now, and haven't seen much improvement. Seemed to stop it from looking any worse though. My question is can gyno include multiple lumps all around the breast area?

Although it doesn't look like its getting any worse, I can now feel lumps under both nipples and also have multiple lumps surrounding the nipple area that seem to go nearly to the arm pit area. I have never heard anyone else mention more than the one lump under the nip. I have noticed in the last week on letro the lumps do feel a little softer and aren't quite as round (some almost feel flat on one side).

Any advice would be MUCH appreciated! Should I give the letro more time to do the trick (it is pharma grade by the way)? should I reduce the dose a bit as some say 2.5 ED is never necessary?


#2

interesting post. please keep this updated.


#3

Will do greenseedless. The gyno symptoms only started about 2-3 weeks before I got on letro. I was also taking An OTC AI (form xt). I have read that many see good results reversing the gyno when it’s caught that soon. Even if no one has some advice/recommendations to share, I will still try to post any changes I see in the near future. My plan as of now is to continue running the letro at 2.5 ED until all lumps are gone, or until i realize they clearly arent getting any better. Then I will taper down the letro and, on the day of the last dose, I will hop on nolvadex @ 20mgs Ed for a couple weeks to prevent rebound from the letro.


#4

So my original post was fairly lengthy. Out of all that mumbo jumbo, my main question was… has anyone else experienced (or know someone who experienced) multiple lumps in the whole breast area (not just under nips, although I have those too). I’m just confused how 4 days of ostarine at only 12.5mg ED could cause the gyno to begin with. Seemed like others who had gyno symptoms from osta were running much higher doses and and for a lot longer cycle.

Thanks in advance for any feedback guys!


#5

well, since Ostarine doesn’t aromatize, an AI isn’t really gonna help with gyno.

get some raxlofene, which is a SERM (and likely the strongest SERM as far as gyno is concerned)


#6

Wow that is unfortunate. I use ostarine A LOT because I love the stuff and luckily I have never had any issues except some test suppression (knocks it down to ~330 after 6 weeks).
Cyco is right, it doesn’t outright aromatize, but it could be raising your E2 by some other mechanism. SARMs are still not totally understood and I have heard of people having symptoms of high E2 while on osta. Get bloods if you can, and letro might help by lowering your overall E2, but ralox is pretty much foolproof regardless of the cause so that is your best options.
Also, 12.5mg for 4 days should not cause this. I normally use 20mg for 6-8wks and don’t feel any sides till the end. I assume you are using some RC liquid and not one of the capsule/pill preparations available in the US?


#7

Thanks for the response guys. And yes, it was from one of the RC suppliers (liquid form). I actually wondered if maybe they gave me something other than ostarine 'cause this definately isn’t just paranoia! I do have some tamoxifen on hand, but only like 30 20mgs tabs. The Letro seems to be helping a bit, but you guys think I would be better off switching to the tamoxifen and then trying to grab some raloxifene?


#8

I have some mk 2866 on hand and thinking of taking 12.5 mg daily.
I had no idea that it could cause gyno.
I myself and not very prone to gyno, having taken many aas before.

please correct me if I am wrong but it seems as if an AI would be useless with ostarine seeing as it does not aromotize. You would be better with a low dose of nolvadex?

How does mk2866 cause gyno. and what is E2?


#9

Sorry for the confusion, E2 is estradiol, the main estrogen in your body. From a chemistry stand point I am not sure how (or really if) Mk2886/ostarine causes gyno, but I personally know a few people who have had elevated E2 levels after taking it, and have heard of people getting gyno on forums, but take that with a grain of salt.

I’m guessing it is possible some people get it from elevated estrogen levels, which apparently osta can cause in some people even though it doesn’t aromatize. Who knows… maybe it affects how test aromatizes, maybe it does something totally novel, SARMs are weird and not that well researched.

I personally have found them to be safe, but have only used them for a few years, in any case if you have real ostarine, 12.5mg should be safe but everyone is different, get bloods if you can and be smart about it.


#10

So it is my understanding that gyno is believed to be caused by an imbalance in the ratio of test to estrogen. So if osta raises E2 or supresses test production, or worse, both, then couldn’t it in theory cause gyno?

Not saying the source below is 100 percent reliable, but it’s one of many i’ve read that mentions ostarine users reporting increases in est and supressed test.

“Also worth noting, is Ostarine’s effect on estrogen. In the same study referenced earlier on elderly men using 3 mgâ??s per day they found a 37% drop in estradiol. What is interesting is that many guys have reported increased estrogen levels while using Ostarine, this is believed to be a result of increased expression of the aromatase enzyme (the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogens).”

I thought this was interesting that the referenced study actually found a significant decrease in E2 levels in elderly men taking low doses (3 mgs).


#11

i believe the proposed mechanism is that Ostarine might be able to actually activate the ER in breast tissue…


#12

I hope not! I’m not normally prone to gyno based on my prior experiences with test E and prop, but I have been doing a ton of osta lately, I wonder if that will make me more prone to gyno next time I run a full cycle.


#13

[quote]RowsUpright wrote:
Wow that is unfortunate. I use ostarine A LOT because I love the stuff and luckily I have never had any issues except some test suppression (knocks it down to ~330 after 6 weeks).
Cyco is right, it doesn’t outright aromatize, but it could be raising your E2 by some other mechanism. SARMs are still not totally understood and I have heard of people having symptoms of high E2 while on osta. Get bloods if you can, and letro might help by lowering your overall E2, but ralox is pretty much foolproof regardless of the cause so that is your best options.
Also, 12.5mg for 4 days should not cause this. I normally use 20mg for 6-8wks and don’t feel any sides till the end. I assume you are using some RC liquid and not one of the capsule/pill preparations available in the US? [/quote]

What “sides” are you referring to at the end of your cycle? I’m into my second week on Osta (planning to run 30mg ed for 8 weeks) and haven’t really noticed much of anything…good or bad. I am taking a liver supplement as well but was wondering if it would be smart to include a test booster too. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


#14

Around two weeks is usually when it starts to kick in for me, it starts very slow with strength increase and then noticeable increases in muscle fullness even when I’m low carb. Strength will increase steadily weekly, not nearly as crazy when I’m on test, but I also get a nice little boost in endurance. I also tend to slim out pretty noticeably around the lower abs/waist around week 4. Also I can still keep my strength up and tend to maintain the same body weight while losing a little fat if I am in a caloric deficit as long as I am getting enough protein from actual food (1g per lb is all I need).

As for the negative sides, towards the end of my cycles I usually get a little lethargic/lose motivation for activities other than training (which I kind of have to force myself to do). I start to not care about sex, and have slightly weaker erections, but everything still works for the most part. A couple times I have also had itchy nips, but no lumps, these seemed to be worse when I was also using DAA towards the end of my cycle. Another odd side, towards the end of my cycle and for about a week or two after, I am hungry as shit all the time, I eat non stop but don’t usually have any really noticeable weight changes, maybe a pound or two.


#15

But to answer your original question, no I would not take a test booster on cycle especially DAA, it seems to make some of the sides worse for me. I would however run one when you are done. I personally like to blast a SERM (clomid if you can) for 2-3 weeks a couple days after my last dose, but I have friends who don’t do this and they recover fine so that might be overkill


#16

[quote]RowsUpright wrote:
But to answer your original question, no I would not take a test booster on cycle especially DAA, it seems to make some of the sides worse for me. I would however run one when you are done. I personally like to blast a SERM (clomid if you can) for 2-3 weeks a couple days after my last dose, but I have friends who don’t do this and they recover fine so that might be overkill [/quote]

Dude, that’s great feedback! Thank you very much!