Between TRT and Cycling

Pharma / TRT
21

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I already told you it would not do much other than maintain gains made on a blast. Myostatin levels increase with an increase in testosterone levels.[/quote]

Yes I understand that. But if there is no ‘blast’ per say…

You only ‘double up’ (just saying) numbers compare to regular TRT levels…

Analogy, you can drink one beer a day (regulart TRT) or two beers a day (very high TRT) or you can get drunk once a week (regular cycle)…

One beer a day: you feel normal and fine
Get drunk once a week:Amazing night but the next day…or two is a little hard
Two beers/day: You get a little buzz, no hangover and you can do that all your life…!!!

Good analogy?[/quote]

I understood your initial question. You don’t seem to understand the answer.

When you do a cycle of 500mg/week, your gains start to slow after 8 weeks. By week 12-14, you either increase dose or PCT.

If you cruise on 500mg/week, you will encounter the same thing, in which you will either have to increase dosage, which will turn it into a blast, or you will be having a similar rate of gains as you would on 100mg/week.

So, if you’re above your natural limit, this will maintain your gains. If you’re NOT over your natural limit, why would you cruise with 500mg/week?
[/quote]

Wouldn’t you also have to run an AI at a cycle level dose as long as test is being run that high? There would some negative long term effects of that, no?

22

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I already told you it would not do much other than maintain gains made on a blast. Myostatin levels increase with an increase in testosterone levels.[/quote]

Yes I understand that. But if there is no ‘blast’ per say…

You only ‘double up’ (just saying) numbers compare to regular TRT levels…

Analogy, you can drink one beer a day (regulart TRT) or two beers a day (very high TRT) or you can get drunk once a week (regular cycle)…

One beer a day: you feel normal and fine
Get drunk once a week:Amazing night but the next day…or two is a little hard
Two beers/day: You get a little buzz, no hangover and you can do that all your life…!!!

Good analogy?[/quote]

He really does understand your question and he is giving a solid answer. Your body get used to the extra test and it no longer provides the boost for growth.

So sounds like the cruise should be set at advancement level and blasts dosed accordingly for growth? I imagine the goal is the biggest difference possible with keeping the doses only as high as needed?

23

[quote]KountKoma wrote:

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I already told you it would not do much other than maintain gains made on a blast. Myostatin levels increase with an increase in testosterone levels.[/quote]

Yes I understand that. But if there is no ‘blast’ per say…

You only ‘double up’ (just saying) numbers compare to regular TRT levels…

Analogy, you can drink one beer a day (regulart TRT) or two beers a day (very high TRT) or you can get drunk once a week (regular cycle)…

One beer a day: you feel normal and fine
Get drunk once a week:Amazing night but the next day…or two is a little hard
Two beers/day: You get a little buzz, no hangover and you can do that all your life…!!!

Good analogy?[/quote]

He really does understand your question and he is giving a solid answer. Your body get used to the extra test and it no longer provides the boost for growth.[/quote]

You don’t “get used to the extra test”. It’s things like an increase in myostatin levels in response to the presence of extra test that slow growth.

Exactly.

24

Ok I think I understand what you guys mean.

So on TRT you would pin 100mg/wk of test to bring you into a ‘normal’ zone,for most people. And There wouldn’t be no real, long term, positive effect of ‘TRT/crusing’ at higher level, let’s say 250mg/wk. As you would slowly get used to that higher test levels.

We’re talking about guys who aren’t ‘blasting and or cycling’ as they try to keep everything under the radar.

Obviously all other ancillaries (AI and/or hCG,…) are used. (Trying to) Keep all the other values within ‘range’.

I have a friend who got prescribed, on TRT, 400mg/week (+arimidex). Now obviously, the doc is pro TRT. Not sure of his numbers. I assume they’re in the very upper ‘normal’ range…but I could be wrong on that one.

Just trying to understand all avenue possible from TRT to B/C and everything in between. Not much info on that online so I have to rely on forum’s experts.

Thanks, hopefully, I didn’t get too many of you frustrated trying to explain that stuff.

25

I think you’re misunderstanding TRT. There isn’t actually a true standard dose. 100 mg/wk is really on the low end. I’ve heard of TRT being prescribed as high as 250/wk. That’s a pretty wide range. So your question really only deals with the range of 250-450ish. The difference in terms of physique development between these 2 numbers won’t be huge, especially over a long period of time, for the reasons already mentioned. I don’t see a real reason to run more than 250ish long-term, unless it simply makes you feel better. That’s basically what TRT is all about anyway, raising the quality of life.

26

Yes I understand that ‘100mg/week’ is not for everybody some will require more, some may require less to be ‘normal’. It’s all about bringing the man with whatever is normal (between 400 ng/dL and 1100ng/dL) and what makes him feel good. Not forgetting about the other hormones and everything else…

From the other guys here, there is no point of being above what a normal man on TRT would require. I meant “what if a man that only requires 100mg/wk takes about 250-350mg/wk as TRT…not as a blast or cycle but for basically the rest of his life”

If a guy, to be normal requires 350mg+/wk , well he is border line with a basic cycle (500mg/wk) so he wouldn’t even feel the difference if he started a cycle at 500mg/wk.

Anyway, knowledgeable posters mentioned that there is no benefits, in the long run that take more than what you need unless you go on a cycle or do B/C.

27

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:
Ok I think I understand what you guys mean.

So on TRT you would pin 100mg/wk of test to bring you into a ‘normal’ zone,for most people. And There wouldn’t be no real, long term, positive effect of ‘TRT/crusing’ at higher level, let’s say 250mg/wk. As you would slowly get used to that higher test levels.

We’re talking about guys who aren’t ‘blasting and or cycling’ as they try to keep everything under the radar.

Obviously all other ancillaries (AI and/or hCG,…) are used. (Trying to) Keep all the other values within ‘range’.

I have a friend who got prescribed, on TRT, 400mg/week (+arimidex). Now obviously, the doc is pro TRT. Not sure of his numbers. I assume they’re in the very upper ‘normal’ range…but I could be wrong on that one.

Just trying to understand all avenue possible from TRT to B/C and everything in between. Not much info on that online so I have to rely on forum’s experts.

Thanks, hopefully, I didn’t get too many of you frustrated trying to explain that stuff.[/quote]

400 mg/wk for TRT? no way…

seriously, the math makes it all pretty simple. 100 mg test e/cyp is 70 mg of actual test (minus the ester). production is generally 3-10 mg/day, which is 70 mg a week… (and to be clear, that’s the upper range of normal, too. most guys don’t actually produce 10 mg/day).

^granted, different guys can get different blood levels, but for actual TRT, the goal should be stable blood levels within range.

28

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:
Ok I think I understand what you guys mean.

So on TRT you would pin 100mg/wk of test to bring you into a ‘normal’ zone,for most people. And There wouldn’t be no real, long term, positive effect of ‘TRT/crusing’ at higher level, let’s say 250mg/wk. As you would slowly get used to that higher test levels.

We’re talking about guys who aren’t ‘blasting and or cycling’ as they try to keep everything under the radar.

Obviously all other ancillaries (AI and/or hCG,…) are used. (Trying to) Keep all the other values within ‘range’.

I have a friend who got prescribed, on TRT, 400mg/week (+arimidex). Now obviously, the doc is pro TRT. Not sure of his numbers. I assume they’re in the very upper ‘normal’ range…but I could be wrong on that one.

Just trying to understand all avenue possible from TRT to B/C and everything in between. Not much info on that online so I have to rely on forum’s experts.

Thanks, hopefully, I didn’t get too many of you frustrated trying to explain that stuff.[/quote]

400 mg/wk for TRT? no way…

seriously, the math makes it all pretty simple. 100 mg test e/cyp is 70 mg of actual test (minus the ester). production is generally 3-10 mg/day, which is 70 mg a week… (and to be clear, that’s the upper range of normal, too. most guys don’t actually produce 10 mg/day).

^granted, different guys can get different blood levels, but for actual TRT, the goal should be stable blood levels within range. [/quote]

Yes, 400mg/wk, that’s what he told me. He told me the doc brought him up at the upper limit. Now, I’m not in his bathroom when he pins…

That’s why I was wondering of the potential benefits of being, on TRT (aka on test for the rest of your natural life), on higher dose than you would need to be ‘normal’ (yes it varies from one person to another) but still low enough that it is not considered cycling or crusing dose. 400mg/wk would still be a fairly high cruising dose but that’s still cruising and not ‘TRT’.

In the end, if he does 400mg/wk for the rest of his life, will he be in ‘better’ (which is very relative opinion) physical condition than if he would have use a ‘regular’ TRT dosage (100mg-200mg/wk…for most people) obviously making sure all other hormones are in check…

Maybe I should have asked my question this way: “For a man already on TRT, requiring only 100mg a week to be within range and happy, what if that man uses 250 to 400mg of test/wk for the rest of his life if he make sure that every other hormones and everything else is in check? Pros and Cons”

Which leads to part two of the question…lol alright won’t even venture there…

I guess by trying to be very clear about the question I got everybody confused…My Bad.

29

Yes, someone on double his TRT dose will have his sex drive go through the roof provided he keeps his estrogen in check.

30

I found this post while doing a search. My T level was a little over 200. My urologist doc rx me 100mg/wk of Test-C. After 6 months I had my bloods checked and I was at a little over 500. He then rx me 200mg/wk of Test-C. I get my bloods checked again in a few weeks. I suspect that my T level will be a bit higher as I started getting a few pimples on my back/shoulders, and my blood pressure has gone up about 10 points. In addition, I had a regular annual physical with another doctor a month ago and my RBC and Hemocrit were slightly elevated which I was told is normal (but not desirable) while on TRT. In your opinion, do you think I am better off staying at a lower long term dose of 100mg/wk? Is there any advantage to being on a higher dose of 200mg/wk?

Regardless, my plan is to stockpile my unused rx until I have enough to do a 12 wk blast of 250mg/E3D w/ proper AI. My rx reads “inject 1ml in muscle every week” and is good for one 10ml bottle of 200mg/ml Test-C every 30 days.

Thank you.

31

[quote]vvancruz wrote:
I found this post while doing a search. My T level was a little over 200. My urologist doc rx me 100mg/wk of Test-C. After 6 months I had my bloods checked and I was at a little over 500. He then rx me 200mg/wk of Test-C. I get my bloods checked again in a few weeks. I suspect that my T level will be a bit higher as I started getting a few pimples on my back/shoulders, and my blood pressure has gone up about 10 points. In addition, I had a regular annual physical with another doctor a month ago and my RBC and Hemocrit were slightly elevated which I was told is normal (but not desirable) while on TRT. In your opinion, do you think I am better off staying at a lower long term dose of 100mg/wk? Is there any advantage to being on a higher dose of 200mg/wk?

Regardless, my plan is to stockpile my unused rx until I have enough to do a 12 wk blast of 250mg/E3D w/ proper AI. My rx reads “inject 1ml in muscle every week” and is good for one 10ml bottle of 200mg/ml Test-C every 30 days.

Thank you.[/quote]

how long of an interval between your injection and bloodwork?

32

On my first blood labs it was 7 days between injection and blood drawn. My second blood labs are coming up, I haven’t done them yet.