Best Way to Quit TRT? Is Estrogen Rebound a Problem?

I wouldn’t quite agree with this, I’d say it’s a lack of education/misinformation that’s being rampantly spread around via both the public and within the medical community. With the attitude the public has around PED’s I can’t see this changing anytime soon… furthermore, as ref ranges get lower and lower, the limit as to what’s accepted now regards a TT of say 150ng/dl as being perfectly acceptable for a man… I can link CLINICAL DATA that indicates the norm (cavg) for a healthy man to be around 730ng/dl… many ref ranges now consider even that to be supraphysiological… the 98th percentile was about 1250ng/dl

100%, alcohol induced autonomic dysfunction/proarrytmiac effect is no joke… young people tend to get away with it though (barring undiagnosed cardiac ailment), but my friend has a leaky valve, binge drinks fairly frequently and hasn’t (yet) run into provlems

Depends what dose you’re on. Is you’re “trt” like 400mg weekly… indefinitely… unless you metabolise T at a greatly accelerated rate/have PAIS such dosage would be equatable to a constant cycle…

Interestingly, it appears to be individualistic regarding just to what extent this happens. Some can get away with very high dosages for decades and develop only mild/minimal LVH/cardiac dysfunction, others with a genetic predisposition (not genetically acquired cardiomyopathy of which would be present beforehand) can develop cardiomyopathy after a few small cycles… a lot depends on genetics (response to oxidive stress/how much cellular damage occurs, how blood pressure is controlled, degree of sympathetic nervous system stimulation invoked etc)

FUCK I’m so tired, but I’m with my cousin, he doesn’t want to go to sleep… dammit, can’t get any rest…

Avoid the DHEA as it is suppressive to the HPTA.
I’d also avoid the D-Aspartic acid as it is an NMDA receptor agonist, which causes Prolactin release and activation of the NMDA receptors causes elevated neuroinflammation as well. Not something anyone should be taking.

@systemlord do you not find it odd that you immediately jumped to “underlying health condition”, with a clear bias due to your own situation, without even asking what his protocol or labs were? “My protocol doesn’t work” … “So you must have an underlying health issue”…?

My first question would have been what the protocol was, what has been tried so far, labs, duration/time, health, stress, age, height/weight etc. Seems you jump to conclusions with virtually no information whatsoever.

I’d jump to underlying health ailment unrelated to TRT (that may have been exacerbated) because a physiologic dosages of testosterone shouldn’t cause atrial fibrillation within a regular individual

Say he’s on 100-200mg/wk, I highly doubt that’d be the sole cause of a-fib. A highly stressful lifestyle, anxiety (also induced by genetic/lifestyle factors), old age with underlying cardiovascular disease, being heinously overweight (one of the reasons why I reccomend being careful with some regarding TRT. If you’ve spent you’re entire life sedentary, it’s not like you’re suddenly going to change dietary/lifestyle habits suddenly etc, the sudden shift off homeostasis regarding an already frail/fragile body, the sudden upregulation of the sympathetic nervous system and bam… arrhythmia city… (imagine an incredibly stressed out individual, cortisol pumping out, systemic catecholamine release… the guy is sedentary, overweight, already residing in a systemically pro inflammatory state due to elevated circulating concentrations of pro inflammatory cytokines etc… he’s put on T, the CNS stimulation combined with all the other variables proves to be too much and BAM… Atrial fibrillation, such an individual should have been evaluated carefully prior to being put on)

That’s just my take on it, I highly doubt barring perhaps the notion of a cardiac defect/disease (aside from atherosclerosis) being present that TRT alone was the sole causation here.

However systemlord is highly biased regarding this situation, stipulating every single male with a TT below say 600 “certainly requires TRT” when they state the slightest symptom that may or may not have anything to do with T deficiency. If it ain’t broke… don’t try to fix it lol. If we look at his situation (chronically unhealthy, has been very overweight for a very long period of time… health aliments are racking up due to being in ill health for so long) TRT does seem to exacerbate (understandably) his issues, particularly regarding regulation of electrolyte balance, autonomic dysfunction etc. He doesn’t appear to want to take the sound advice that TRT aggravates/induces new issues over time (for him) and thus prior medical pathology needs to be dealt with before he can proceed (and I assume had he been healthy the would be able to handle far higher doses to boot… not complain of potassium imbalance, neuropathic pain etc on 5mg/day… wonders why this is happening with a HbA1c of like 8% (obvious clinical marker regarding the presence of diabetes mellitus)…)

I understand there is a notion of denial, and he will get PISSED off that I’m posting this, however it needs to be said and the sooner he can realise TRT isn’t the holy grail regarding fixing his issues (as he has banked EVERYTHING on the mere notion of testosterone replacement being the holy grail to all issues and appears reluctant or outright refuses to try anything else “X medication won’t work because I have side effects from all medications etc”.) If he doesn’t fix up his health status, these problems he’s experiencing will prove lethal… I’m sure there will end up being some kind of excuse as to why he can’t lose weight “but I’m eating healthily, exercising etc.” Most obese people say this to me, then when you see a normal, somewhat fit person actually push them in the gym they’re suddenly winded after running 200 metres at an adequate pace, or literally die from one set of squats. You analyse their diet and… they may be eating healthily, but macronutrient intake is off, their “salad” is literally doused with sugary dressings, overall caloric intake is at or well over maintenance

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@unreal24278 @dbossa I’m on TRT, specifically Nebido, cause hypogonadism, age 27. I take blood tests two weeks prior to every injection. I’ve tried getting my doctor to mention a total T-level that he’s expecting to see eventually but have heard mum back.

I do have access to my own values upon request though, so what should I be hoping to land on?

Whatever value amoreliates symptoms… there’s no specific set point

Test U isn’t the greatest for treating hypogonadism (in my opinion), given the protocols implemented via the medical community, time for onset of action is too slow (say at least 12-20 weeks) and the cavg induced via trials is typically about 500ng/dl on average, with nadirs being closer to 2-300ng/dl prior to next shot)

The half life of test U is perhaps 25 days, so why are shots being given every 100 days or so?..

Regardless, if it works for you, then all the better… less of a (literal) pain in the ass. But personally, I’m not a fan of the stuff

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I have no choice beyond this or gel :man_police_officer:

There is a choice… however the choice involves committing numerous felonies if you’re in the US or Aus… which I don’t recommend, that’s a choice up to an individual to make by themselves

Hence my police person symbol :upside_down_face:

In you’re situation perhaps the best course of action (as I doubt the doc will allow you to space injections any closer than 12 weeks apart) would be to ask for the gel and the reandron/aveed (test U, whatever brand it’s all the same lol, though the oil it’s suspended in does appear… according to literature… to affect the HL). When you dip down to the point in which you become symptomatic one can use the gel to top up (absorption rates for androgel is a real crapshoot though)

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This is a good idea, unfortunately I get horrible rashes from the gels available here (testavan/tostrex).

I’ve expressed that I go symptomatic between injections. To wit my doctor has replied that if I, after my next injection, experience the same problems we’ll discuss a more frequent injection frequency (possibly meaning every 10 weeks).
If my

What about a compounded cream/scrotal gel… do they have patches available (also tend to give horrific rashes)

Generic axiron should be available no? And it’d be cheap

Unfortunately, no. I’ve been through the entire spectrum of treatments offered within my nations borders.

The de-facto site to visit is, Resultat - FASS Vårdpersonal

But I get that isn’t helpful to a non-Swedish speaker. So, I’ve listed the treatment options here before,

There’s another document,

which lists Axiron but it’d be impossible to get a doctor to prescribe you anything for a given condition if not listed as a treatment option in FASS (first link). So, no luck.

But thank you for your suggestions!

I realize this but there was zero mention of afib in the initial post. Just that it didn’t work and caused him issues. I would have asked all the questions I proposed as well as “what kind of health issues”. By chance, afib came up quickly. But still.