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Best Way to Build Upper Pec Region

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
PF_88 wrote:
I personally like flies, would never use them over bench presses but usually have them in my routine. Why the not so fondness of them?

I’ve never really felt them in my chest. I never feel like I get a good workout from them. It seems to target my shoulders a little more than my chest. Now with cables on the other hand. It hits the chest pretty well. lol

Gerdy[/quote]

If i ONLY have pressing mvements in my chest routine… it definitely affects my width. Defo.

I need to have at least 1 fly exercise in for my outer pec… even when i press with a wide grip as i do sometimes, i need to “flye” too… :slight_smile:

Joe

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Well I was going to suggest fyles too, but not like NPs above.

Just do the bottom portion of the range instead, to keep continuous tension on the pec. Never go further than 45 degrees with each rep. Go slow.

Have the bench set on a low incline.

I have overactive delts too, so I use this to minimise their involvement.

Really concentrate on the stretch at the bottom (but make sure your shoulders are ‘good’ for it) to stretch the facia. A tight fascia limits growth, IMO.

Bushy

I think flyes are the greatest waste of time in the gym right next to “bosu ball push ups” and “hanging out in the men’s locker room eerily long”.

That’s cool man, and I’m not going to argue with your experience. I used to think the same thing, but all I know is that since I began incorporating super-strict, heavy, bottom-range chest flyes, my chest finally started to grow, leaving my shoulders behind.

Well, not ‘behind’ exactly. You can’t undo 10 years of shoulder dominance in 6 months.

For my particular body type and biomechanics, pressing isn’t as effective as flying for chest development.

Bushy

EDIT: I used to use cable flyes and they were the best. However my gym recently replaced its equipment and got in some stuff designed and made in Spain where they must all me dwarfs because the cables are too close together to flye between now :([/quote]

Hey Bushy,

Have you tried just stepping forward 1-2 steps with your knew dwarf machine? lol

I’m fairly tall and have some long arms and I have this problem all the time. I found that If I step forward a little bit that it helps.

This only works on the pulleys that swivel forwards and backwards.

It might help and with proper form gives a pretty nice stretch on the pecs :wink:

Gerdy

[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
PF_88 wrote:
I personally like flies, would never use them over bench presses but usually have them in my routine. Why the not so fondness of them?

I’ve never really felt them in my chest. I never feel like I get a good workout from them. It seems to target my shoulders a little more than my chest. Now with cables on the other hand. It hits the chest pretty well. lol

Gerdy

If i ONLY have pressing mvements in my chest routine… it definitely affects my width. Defo.

I need to have at least 1 fly exercise in for my outer pec… even when i press with a wide grip as i do sometimes, i need to “flye” too… :slight_smile:

Joe[/quote]

Try a pec deck or cable crossovers as your last movement. Flyes simply look “pretty” when people are doing them. I doubt most here are using enough weight on them to truly make them effective at building mass. Plus, there is no damn thing as “outer pecs” since the same fibers at the outside are the same ones on the inside. They run HORIZONTALLY.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Joe Joseph wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
PF_88 wrote:
I personally like flies, would never use them over bench presses but usually have them in my routine. Why the not so fondness of them?

I’ve never really felt them in my chest. I never feel like I get a good workout from them. It seems to target my shoulders a little more than my chest. Now with cables on the other hand. It hits the chest pretty well. lol

Gerdy

If i ONLY have pressing mvements in my chest routine… it definitely affects my width. Defo.

I need to have at least 1 fly exercise in for my outer pec… even when i press with a wide grip as i do sometimes, i need to “flye” too… :slight_smile:

Joe

Try a pec deck or cable crossovers as your last movement. Flyes simply look “pretty” when people are doing them. I doubt most here are using enough weight on them to truly make them effective at building mass. Plus, there is no damn thing as “outer pecs” since the same fibers at the outside are the same ones on the inside. They run HORIZONTALLY.[/quote]

Do you think that somebody can put more stress on that part of the muscle? I agree that the same fibers are the same ones on the inside and outside but there are exercises that target the inner chest? When I do any fly, pec deck, xover, etc. I personally feel more of a “pump” in my outer pec area. Not to say that it is only working the outer pec, of course the rest of the muscle grows as well.

I see your point and if somebody argues how you can build a bigger lower chest than upper it is because they are different fibers and some recieve more stimulus during exercise.

Is this pump I feel in my outer pec more from the stretching I recieve in the area where the chest inserts?

Gerdy

Low-Incline Dumbbell Bench Press targets my chest more than anything else. I think inclines are better for chest development not because they hit the upper fibers but because the ROM for the pecs is increased and because the pecs stay involved in incline lifts longer (i.e. on Flat Bench the top range is mostly triceps but in Inclines the top range still involves more pec than the top range of the Flat Bench Press). I have no evidence other than my own observations, feelings, and soreness to support these claims.

But if a muscle group is lagging, the answer usually isn’t finding one new magical exercise.
You either need more variety in your routine or you need to adjust the amount of training volume the lagging muscle group is receiving.

There isn’t much danger in having too much variety other than that you’ll have a harder time tracking your progress. If you rotate through 3 of your favorite chest moves, you’ll stay fresh and keep hitting PRs in each move nearly every training session. If you have only 1 chest workout that you always do, you’ll plateau. If you rotate through 20 different chest workouts you won’t have any means of measuring your progress other than how you look and how your Bench compares to what you were putting up 20 workouts ago. I guess that’s not that bad but I think rotating though 3 or 4 different chest workouts will give you ample variety but still give you a good idea of your progress based on your numbers.

I find it a bit odd that some think there is an upper and lower pec, but no inner and outer. I think there are only pec majors and minors. To each his own.
Most barrel-chested guys with huge pecs often debunk anything except heavy pressing as a waste of time.
However, in my experience with horrid chest genetics, I have to try everything possible to make them grow.
The only things that help “non-barrel-chested” guys like me have been:

Heavy flyes
Pre and post exhaustion
Using multiple bench angles–primarily 0*~35*
Hanging rings–I have chains hanging from the rafters in my basement with handles attached. Need to use these more!

Fairly wide grip low incline barbell bench press. From full extension bar down touching chest and back up to full ext. Like someone else said most guys have the incline far too high and are doing more shoulder work. Also, some guys come down and stop about five inches before hitting their chest and back up. The focus there is still mainly on the triceps.

Low incline bench press is one of my favorite exercises and greatly stimulated growth in that upper chest delt tie in area for me.

I agree flies and cables are good only after bombarding the chest with heavy metal compound presses.

D

[quote]Radjxf wrote:
I find it a bit odd that some think there is an upper and lower pec, but no inner and outer. I think there are only pec majors and minors. To each his own.
Most barrel-chested guys with huge pecs often debunk anything except heavy pressing as a waste of time.
However, in my experience with horrid chest genetics, I have to try everything possible to make them grow.
The only things that help “non-barrel-chested” guys like me have been:

Heavy flyes
Pre and post exhaustion
Using multiple bench angles–primarily 0*~35*
Hanging rings–I have chains hanging from the rafters in my basement with handles attached. Need to use these more!

[/quote]

Your chest is spread over a very wide area. That makes hitting upper fibers more than lower fibers a possiblity related to the degree or angle of resistance. You can NOT do the same with “inner and outer” because the same fibers at the outside are the same ones on the inside.

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Joe Joseph wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
PF_88 wrote:
I personally like flies, would never use them over bench presses but usually have them in my routine. Why the not so fondness of them?

I’ve never really felt them in my chest. I never feel like I get a good workout from them. It seems to target my shoulders a little more than my chest. Now with cables on the other hand. It hits the chest pretty well. lol

Gerdy

If i ONLY have pressing mvements in my chest routine… it definitely affects my width. Defo.

I need to have at least 1 fly exercise in for my outer pec… even when i press with a wide grip as i do sometimes, i need to “flye” too… :slight_smile:

Joe

Try a pec deck or cable crossovers as your last movement. Flyes simply look “pretty” when people are doing them. I doubt most here are using enough weight on them to truly make them effective at building mass. Plus, there is no damn thing as “outer pecs” since the same fibers at the outside are the same ones on the inside. They run HORIZONTALLY.

Do you think that somebody can put more stress on that part of the muscle? I agree that the same fibers are the same ones on the inside and outside but there are exercises that target the inner chest? When I do any fly, pec deck, xover, etc. I personally feel more of a “pump” in my outer pec area. Not to say that it is only working the outer pec, of course the rest of the muscle grows as well.

I see your point and if somebody argues how you can build a bigger lower chest than upper it is because they are different fibers and some recieve more stimulus during exercise.

Is this pump I feel in my outer pec more from the stretching I recieve in the area where the chest inserts?

Gerdy[/quote]

Yes, plus when you squeeze the muscle at the greatest contraction, you are pulling at that inner attachment to the sternum. That is why you may feel it more in that area but it doesn’t mean those “inner” fibers are working harder since they are the same ones on the outside.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Joe Joseph wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
PF_88 wrote:
I personally like flies, would never use them over bench presses but usually have them in my routine. Why the not so fondness of them?

I’ve never really felt them in my chest. I never feel like I get a good workout from them. It seems to target my shoulders a little more than my chest. Now with cables on the other hand. It hits the chest pretty well. lol

Gerdy

If i ONLY have pressing mvements in my chest routine… it definitely affects my width. Defo.

I need to have at least 1 fly exercise in for my outer pec… even when i press with a wide grip as i do sometimes, i need to “flye” too… :slight_smile:

Joe

Try a pec deck or cable crossovers as your last movement. Flyes simply look “pretty” when people are doing them. I doubt most here are using enough weight on them to truly make them effective at building mass. Plus, there is no damn thing as “outer pecs” since the same fibers at the outside are the same ones on the inside. They run HORIZONTALLY.

Do you think that somebody can put more stress on that part of the muscle? I agree that the same fibers are the same ones on the inside and outside but there are exercises that target the inner chest? When I do any fly, pec deck, xover, etc. I personally feel more of a “pump” in my outer pec area. Not to say that it is only working the outer pec, of course the rest of the muscle grows as well.

I see your point and if somebody argues how you can build a bigger lower chest than upper it is because they are different fibers and some recieve more stimulus during exercise.

Is this pump I feel in my outer pec more from the stretching I recieve in the area where the chest inserts?

Gerdy

Yes, plus when you squeeze the muscle at the greatest contraction, you are pulling at that inner attachment to the sternum. That is why you may feel it more in that area but it doesn’t mean those “inner” fibers are working harder since they are the same ones on the outside.[/quote]

So in a nutshell, are you saying there is no way to target the “upper inner chest”? I’ve noticed that I am lacking in this area as well, but have not tried to correct it at all because I am hoping that once I gain more size overall (6’2 215ish) it will correct itself a bit - is it kind of a “biceps peak” thing, where you have it or don’t?

[quote]CJK wrote:
harder since they are the same ones on the outside.

So in a nutshell, are you saying there is no way to target the “upper inner chest”? I’ve noticed that I am lacking in this area as well, but have not tried to correct it at all because I am hoping that once I gain more size overall (6’2 215ish) it will correct itself a bit - is it kind of a “biceps peak” thing, where you have it or don’t? [/quote]

You can’t build muscle where there is only tendon. You can only make a muscle bigger or allow it to atrophy. I couldn’t possibly know what you mean without a picture or seeing you in person. Chances are, you need to build more size.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Chances are, you need to build more size.[/quote]

This is what I have assumed.

Lately I’ve been doing an incline superset with fly’s and presses, sort of.

On an incline bench I take 45 pound DB’s and do a press then a fly, I do this double movement 10 times. I’m seeing pretty good results and it cut’s down my workout time too.

  • Adam

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Joe Joseph wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
PF_88 wrote:
I personally like flies, would never use them over bench presses but usually have them in my routine. Why the not so fondness of them?

I’ve never really felt them in my chest. I never feel like I get a good workout from them. It seems to target my shoulders a little more than my chest. Now with cables on the other hand. It hits the chest pretty well. lol

Gerdy

If i ONLY have pressing mvements in my chest routine… it definitely affects my width. Defo.

I need to have at least 1 fly exercise in for my outer pec… even when i press with a wide grip as i do sometimes, i need to “flye” too… :slight_smile:

Joe

Try a pec deck or cable crossovers as your last movement. Flyes simply look “pretty” when people are doing them. I doubt most here are using enough weight on them to truly make them effective at building mass. Plus, there is no damn thing as “outer pecs” since the same fibers at the outside are the same ones on the inside. They run HORIZONTALLY.

Do you think that somebody can put more stress on that part of the muscle? I agree that the same fibers are the same ones on the inside and outside but there are exercises that target the inner chest? When I do any fly, pec deck, xover, etc. I personally feel more of a “pump” in my outer pec area. Not to say that it is only working the outer pec, of course the rest of the muscle grows as well.

I see your point and if somebody argues how you can build a bigger lower chest than upper it is because they are different fibers and some recieve more stimulus during exercise.

Is this pump I feel in my outer pec more from the stretching I recieve in the area where the chest inserts?

Gerdy

Yes, plus when you squeeze the muscle at the greatest contraction, you are pulling at that inner attachment to the sternum. That is why you may feel it more in that area but it doesn’t mean those “inner” fibers are working harder since they are the same ones on the outside.[/quote]

OK yes I’m on the same page.

Thanks

Gerdy

I am too much of a beginner to do anything on this thread but learn, but I want to say something.

I have noticed the hugest dudes with the biggest chests do mostly pressing exercises and don’t bother with any of that ‘shaping’ stuff.

Like I was recently watching a vid of Chris Cormiers supposed chets routine and there is a lot of bench pressing there, and only 1 isolation exercise (crossovers). What I hear a lot is the idea that once you get to pressing some very mean weight your chest will LOOK like it plays the part, you know?
Like getting to incline pressing 450 for reps will do more for complete chest size than flys or pec dec for example.

Am I wrong?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Radjxf wrote:
I find it a bit odd that some think there is an upper and lower pec, but no inner and outer. I think there are only pec majors and minors. To each his own.
Most barrel-chested guys with huge pecs often debunk anything except heavy pressing as a waste of time.
However, in my experience with horrid chest genetics, I have to try everything possible to make them grow.
The only things that help “non-barrel-chested” guys like me have been:

Heavy flyes
Pre and post exhaustion
Using multiple bench angles–primarily 0*~35*
Hanging rings–I have chains hanging from the rafters in my basement with handles attached. Need to use these more!

Your chest is spread over a very wide area. That makes hitting upper fibers more than lower fibers a possiblity related to the degree or angle of resistance. You can NOT do the same with “inner and outer” because the same fibers at the outside are the same ones on the inside. [/quote]

Radjxf: Picture multiple rubber bands stretched from the sternum to the side of your body. When doing a movement in the pectoral region it is possible to place more emphasis on the top or bottom bands. So picture flexing the bottom bands and seeing them stretch and contract, leaving the top bands with little to no movement. This is how you can train an upper or lower pec. Now as far as outer or inner, if you stretch and relax the rubber band do you see how the whole band moves and not just part of it on the inside or out?

Hope that analogy helped. lol

Gerdy

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
I am too much of a beginner to do anything on this thread but learn, but I want to say something.

I have noticed the hugest dudes with the biggest chests do mostly pressing exercises and don’t bother with any of that ‘shaping’ stuff.

Like I was recently watching a vid of Chris Cormiers supposed chets routine and there is a lot of bench pressing there, and only 1 isolation exercise (crossovers). What I hear a lot is the idea that once you get to pressing some very mean weight your chest will LOOK like it plays the part, you know?
Like getting to incline pressing 450 for reps will do more for complete chest size than flys or pec dec for example.

Am I wrong?[/quote]

Not at all. You will find most of the people singing the praises of flyes are also some of the smaller members here.

That is no coincidence.

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
I am too much of a beginner to do anything on this thread but learn, but I want to say something.

I have noticed the hugest dudes with the biggest chests do mostly pressing exercises and don’t bother with any of that ‘shaping’ stuff.

Like I was recently watching a vid of Chris Cormiers supposed chets routine and there is a lot of bench pressing there, and only 1 isolation exercise (crossovers). What I hear a lot is the idea that once you get to pressing some very mean weight your chest will LOOK like it plays the part, you know?
Like getting to incline pressing 450 for reps will do more for complete chest size than flys or pec dec for example.

Am I wrong?[/quote]

Pressing is the optimal chest exercise hands down.

Although if you are shoulder dominant I feel that pec deck/flyes/xovers, etc can help build up the chest.

My cousin had no chest and can bench a ton due to strong tri’s and shoulders. He started adding flyes, etc to his routine and is starting to build a shapely chest.

my.02

Gerdy

One observation, take what you want from it…

When someone is doing flies, look at the path that the elbows trace, no matter what it looks like the same movement that the elbows do during a bench press. So could it be that flies are just like a elbows-flared benchpress with super-light weight? maybe thats why they might not work very well.

dont even…

light weight… different leverage, different tensions, different TUT - different stimlation, full stop.

They are an ancillary move and done. They have a place and they do a job.

Leave 'em alone!!

Joe