T Nation

Best Way to Add 10lbs Muscle and Lose 10lbs Fat?


#1

I’m on TRT and would like to gain 10 lbs muscle while losing 10 lbs fat. At the moment, despite good and varied training routines, as well as solid nutrition, such achievements seem to be out of my reach. I’m stalled out.

Would it be wise to go on an oral cycle of Turanibol or Anavar to get me over the hump? If I wasn’t on TRT then I would lean toward a SARM instead, but since my natural production is already suppressed then I might as well go for the “real thing”? Is this in fact valid reasoning?

Any thoughts people might have or alternative suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My experience with hormones is that I experimented with a micro cycle (two weeks only to avoid suppression) of Tbol once a few years ago and liked it, but have otherwise only done TRT. My TRT is Nebido administered at doctor’s office once every 10 weeks and I do not have the option of extra injections.


#2

Just bust ass on a high volume program like these, no fancy supps or gear needed(do this at maintenance calories)…



#3

I find that odd. Assuming you have 10 lbs to lose, I cant see gaining 10 lbs of muscle as that hard to do. I do not know a lot about Nebido. But my guess is that it is not holding your testosterone level very high. And you might have estrogen issues. 10 lbs of muscle is not that hard to do. And with testosterone injections 10lbs just seems to fall off without much effort. Due to unforeseen medical issue I have done very little working out since going on testosterone. Yet I have lost 20lbs of fat and gained more than 10lbs of muscle. We are talking pushups, pull ups, spuats and planks and 2 mouths of near bed rest.

Before going full gear you need to find out if you your 4 times a year Nebido injections are doing much for you. Blood test it. I doubt your testosterone levels are very high. If you are an unusually small man and 10lbs is a high percentage of your body weight. Ok I could be wrong then.


#4

Ok I read up a bit on Nebido. My first guess is that if you want your TrT levels to be stable. You need a shot every 6 weeks. Nebido has a half life of 12 weeks. But maybe oit takes a fast drop at week 9. I do not know. A blood test at 9 weeks would tell the tale. But I am willing to guess your levels are low at that point. And your E2 lelves would be intersing to know.

Nebido sounds like pretty cool stuff. I hope it gets approved in the USA soon. While i doubt you can really go 3 months with it like they say. Once a month would be sweet


#5

“despite good and varied training routines”

What routine? How varied? Are you changing routines? Stick with one for a while, if so. Keep it simple… a novice linear progression Starting Strength (my preference) or something like 5x5.

"solid nutrition"
What macros? How solid?

I’ve talked to so many people who are on a “good routine” and have their diet on point, only to find neither are the case.


#6

This is a lot harder than most people think. You should be more realistic in your goals.[quote=“vkg1, post:1, topic:223016”]
but since my natural production is already suppressed then I might as well go for the “real thing”? Is this in fact valid reasoning?
[/quote]

Not really. If you did a cycle, it would be a complete waste unless you know how to train and eat. Based on your admission that you you are at least twenty pounds off in your body composition, you probably haven’t maxed your gains from training and eating and a cycle would be a waste.

You must know something most other people don’t, because adding ten pounds of muscle is very hard.

This is highly unlikely. How much time are we talking? How did you determine how much fat you lost and how much muscle you gained? BIA? Calipers? Dexa Scan?

I understand you probably feel better, and have lost some weight and inches, but this kind of a swing taxes the limits of credibility. I guess it’s possible if you were a big fat bastard to begin with, but it’s still a stretch.

For the OP, TRT is great, but it’s not a magic bullet. A responsible physician will not have you on supraphysiological levels of test, and so weight loss and LBM gain is only going to be as good as someone with normal T levels. Running a cycle will help, if your diet and training are dialed in - otherwise, it’s a waste.

I suggest you take a look at some of the contest prep threads to see what those guys did to get rid of fat. @BrickHead and @robstein spent a long time in calorie deficit doing LISS and HIIT workouts to get ripped. I suggest that would be a better alternative than running a cycle.

If you’re lucky, you can maybe add five pounds of muscle in a year if you are in a caloric surplus - in my humble opinion. Unless you’re a 125 pound teenage boy. Then, all bets are off.

I suspect some of the other more knowledgeable posters would agree with me, and would like to hear from them.

Good luck.


#7

I assumed he wasn’t trying to do it in 30 days. But to do it in 90 unless you are already big is not that hard. I think you’re speaking from a perspective of someone at a peak and I’m not


#8

But from 5.11 180 to 190 is not that hard to do. But from 210 to 220 is going to take a major part of your life if you even can do it. 10 lbs can be easy or not. How big are you already?


#9

In regards to gaining weight in the weight room. My experience comes out of football. 175 to 185 lean. Was over the summer the 20 took a year. After that impossible. But then I never had gear. This year going from 240 to 210 with major strength gains happened in a very confused 8 month’s. I can’t tell you my muscle gain was 10 lbs. I think it was more. I’m new to trt not working out. A has been athlete still knows how it’s done. Even if he did almost die


#10

I’m confused by all of this. In order to increase muscle mass one needs to be in a calorie surplus and in order to lose fat one needs to be in a calorie deficit. the exception to this is guys on massive amounts of gear or the genetic freaks. A guy who is somewhat out of shape and has low T then begins TRT and an exercise program will see a pretty good body recomp. Especially in the form of fat loss, but nowhere near 10 lbs of added muscle.


#11

Seriously your confused? It really not that complicated


#12

Lol! I’m just amazed by folks who think that restoring normal hormone levels are going to turn them into Arnold. 90% of these guys can’t get their E2 controlled…so good luck becoming a pro body builder!


#13

I was a natural fitness lifter - don’t consider myself a bodybuilder. I want to look good in clothes with a target of 10-12% BF.
When things got difficult, I just tried harder until I dug a hole, couldn’t sleep, and sleep Dr. ordered TT & FT.
I started at 230 TT and 11 E2. Dr. Crisler scripted 160 mg/week & hCG 500iu 2x/week.
I lift 4-5x/week for 45-60 minutes a session. I consume 200-240 g. protein over 6 meals/day.

Date Weight
9/15/2016 240.6
21-Sep 239.6
29-Sep 245
1-Oct 248.4
6-Oct 248
12-Oct 245
28-Oct 246.8

From 9/15 to 10/1, I gained 8 lbs! Granted, my E2 is not yet controlled. First blood work since commencing is this Friday.
At first, I just thought blood cell count was filling my muscles, but I have definitely gained some muscle. I have no reduction in waist circumference yet, but I’m finishing week 8.


#14

Great post!

Yes, Rob and I both did LISS and HIIT to get ripped, until the last our to six weeks of our preps, in which we both had very little carb intake, were worn the hell down, about which we have both commiserated considering that we were both out of our freaking minds and then did mostly or entirely LISS. But as Ive said elsewhere, getting shredded is different than getting a beach body. Shredded condition is short-term and unhealthy. Beach-body shape can be gotten fairly easily and can be maintained long term.

TRT is not done in cycles nor do I understand why some people looks at such medicinal practice as recreational, fun, or optional, or that it is going to offer some significant advantage in aesthetic or athletic or strength goals. It doesn’t provide any of that. In order for one to have such advantage or feel like shit, one has to have supra physiological value or on the other end, T values in the 300s or below.


#15

Sounds like we are confusing 10 pounds of muscle with 10 pounds of lean body mass. 10 pounds of muscle is a HUGE amount. Go get 10 pounds of ground beef from the butcher and imagine that added to your frame. 10 pounds of lean body mass is far easier. 10 pounds of mostly lean body mass (like a well planned bulk you are mentioning) is even easier.


#16

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner. That’s THE answer.


#17

Of course not. but I am sort of amazed by a guy like you who probably has put on one hell of a lot more than 10 pounds of muscle in his life. Who thinks it’s difficult to put on 10 pounds when you’re not at a peak or an unusually small person.

Yes the fastest way to put on 10 pounds of muscle is to eat so much while working out hard heavy that you gain 20 pounds then you lose the 10 lbs of fat while working out heavy. As a ballplayer I was never able to put on that much fat but found gaining 15 pounds over the summer easy. Not everyone’s the same and I knew guys who bulked up faster than I did. The weight is actually lost during the season. So if you ever wondered about football players weights being so huge. None of them weigh what they started the season at. As a matter of fact they probably drop 10 pounds in the first few weeks


#18

Perhaps I misunderstood the original question. My point was…the average joe who starts TRT at 100mg of T is NOT going to add 10lbs of muscle AND drop 10lbs of fat. Those two ideals are polar opposites. You can bulk or cut but not both. What you can expect is a modest body recomp. And even that depends on E2 control.


#19

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

The issue is metabolic balance. If you are needing to loose fat, and TRT is not getting you there, the problem can be your TRT protocol, lab numbers and a few metabolic factors. In the stickies please not references to thyroid, iodine and body temperatures.

Please post your TRT protocol and lab numbers with ranges.


#20

You are still talking 10 pounds of fat free mass, which again isn’t the same thing.