My shotgun was modified by Vang-comp systems out in chino valley AZ. Hans Vang is the best gunsmith for shotguns i know.
I had the “VCS” system installed meaning lengthning the forcing cone, back-boring the barrel and compensating the barrel. The recoil and muzzle rise is greatly reduced and accuracy is superb. I also had the barrel cut and crowned. I added a LPA rear sight and a front sight with Tritium. Also the other thing i had Vang do is install a spring tube for extended magazine capacity. Not to mention a side saddle for extra slugs.
My shotgun is an old-ass Winchester 1200 model (yes…1200 not 1300). Pump-action, 12 gauge, tight choke, simple, no frills.
I agree with all of the posters above: shotgun- first choice, handgun- second choice.
Living in an apartment does make all the difference: I’d hate to accidently put a bullet through the guy who never takes his trash out and plays fucking techno at 3am.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
If you get a pump action shotgun you will need to practice working the action so you don’t half pump it when you get your adrenaline flowing.
I have seen dudes fuck up duck hunting and not get off a second shot.
Guns are addictive. If you actually practice with the one you bought you will just want to get more.[/quote]
Go to your police department of your town with all your documentation, and some money to process the request. You will get a Yellow Card that says you are allowed to own a Rifle, Shotgun, or any Non Concealed weapon, should you pass waiting period.
1a. You are a law enforcement officer or govt. official and posess and Blue Card to get you a Concealed Weapons Permit.
Go to a licenced firearms dealer.
Request a gun tag registration on the gun you want to buy. Wait some time and come back with a great deal of money, for the gun and for the registration and tax fee.
Go back to your Police Dept. and Register your gun with the town. If it is a concealed Weapon, you must get that permit to carry it on you, not just own it. If a non concealed permit, you must licence your gun there.
So in a span of two weeks you can own a gun. A handgun is three weeks and is twice the tax. You will be paying at least $700 for all this between Licencing, Permits, and Registration Taxes applicable.
Your Yellow or Blue card will also tell you how many weapons you are legally allowed to own before its concidered Arsonal and you are fined and investigated big time.
Ragsbo your so right with the pistol grip.
I can’t belive the Marine Corps is issuing the benelli m1014-12. Not only is it pistol grip benelli. It is to tempermental with less-non letal loads and specific sabot and rifled slugs whereas the mossberg or remington can handle all the above. Glad you like the your g22 can’t say enough good things about glocks. Except for they’re not 1911’s. Im guessing your LEO or Homeland considering your carrying .40
Well, I would use a shot gun or a revolver. If I was you I would find some
SXT Rangers they are perfect for little penetration and maximum derstructiveness.
They have six cuts in them letting them expand directly after being shot and when it hits the skin its blossoms distroying everything for the next 4-6" like it was paper.
JHP’s (jacketed hollow points) are always more powerful than FMJ (full metal jacket).
Federal HydroShock,Remington Golden Sabre, Winchester SXT,Hornady Tap are all pretty much the same kind of defensive rounds. I would recomend using JHP’s especially in 9mm and in either 147 or 124 grain as a defensive load because it is a heavier grain bullet than the standard 115grn FMJnato. You could also do the same for .40 as well. The .45 is up for discussion, LEO’s always load up on 235grain or 185grain JHP if the .45 is their duty weapon. Its useful when you need to punch threw glass or a car door. But other than that the .45 reigns supreme, a 9 or 40 might expand but a 45 never shrinks.
BTW the hollow points work great in 38special, theres enough knockdown power in 357 or 44 that JHP are not needed.
Guns: If you are looking at a 12 gauge shotgun for home defense, a Remington 870 is probably your best choice. They are not finiky with ammunition and are extremely durable. The police model is sturdier than the Express, but unless you are going to subject it to the kind of abuse the police guns get, then the Express will probably serve you fine and save you some money. Used police models can be had for a decent price on Gunbroker and Gunsamerica. I would personally go with a standard stock and 20 in or less for barrel length. A short barreled pistol gripped shotgun without a stock is going to cost you some extra money in medical bills when you try to fire full power loads through it. If you can get hits on a target with one of those and avoid getting smacked in the face with the gun when it recoils then you are a bigger man than most.
Although a long gun is always going to be a more effective weapon, handguns are another option. They would give you an advantage in a home with close walls where a longun would be too cumbersome. With good ammunition 9mm, .40 and .45 are all effective. I would choose a handgun that is comfortable in your hands, and you can shoot effectively. I am personally a fan of HK’s, and their LEM models have a relatively simple manual of arms for a semi-automatic handgun. They are not cheap, however. Magazine springs will weaken over time if magazines are kept fully loaded for an extended period of time. This eventually can induce magazine related failures. If your Glock magazines have been fully loaded for 3 years and you have not experienced any magazine induced failures with those mags, then I guess you are luckier than most.
Ammunition: I would go with OO Buck myself. I would imagine no. 1,2,3 buck would be options as well. Any load can penetrate a plaster wall, and I know I wouldn’t want to count on birdshot to stop an intruder. Reduced recoil or “tactical” loads are widely available and are much more comfortable to shoot. Head over to tacticalforums.com and check out a forum devoted to ammunition for very detailed information from experts.
You can’t beat a Desert Eagle!!! Just the sight of one will make someone stop and cry for mercy!!! Go for the gold plated one just to make sure they see it at night!!!
SPAS-12 Tactical Shotty thats what i would go…orrrrrrrrr a walther P-99 which is a pistol, once i turn 21 i’m buyin that thing, and gettin my concealed weapons license…
Just remember, though, don’t point a gun at somebody unless you’re prepared to shoot him, and possibly kill him. It’s not wise to aim at someone expecting they wont lunge at you or something similarly dangerous. People do crazy things like that.
Good stuff. Shotgun is easiest to learn to hit with. 12 gauge doesn’t recoil THAT much and is easy to find ammo and is more powerfull than .20 .410, etc. If you are using for defense get a short barrel, easier to wield. Get one with a stock, not a pistol grip. I think a smaller buckshot gets plenty of pellets but also has some power. If you live in really tight quarters you should think about how hard it is to shoulder, point, and scan with a shotgun. If it’s too tight think about a pistol. It doesn’t matter too much, you usually get more shots with an automatic, but you will have to learn more about the gun and will have to rotate magazines so they don’t just sit and get weak. A revolver usually only has six shots but you can literally just load it and pull the trigger, it’s easy to learn and easy to learn to be safe with. You can also leave it for long periods. If you are serious about guns for self defense, I would get both a shotgun and automatic pistol. You’re gonna have to learn the guns and practice them anyway right. Might as well go all the way.
Plenty of excellent comments already given. I would like to emphasize a couple. My choice is a short barrel 12 gauge loaded with #1 buckshot. This is a good compromise on over penetration through walls, but at close range will absolutely take someone’s face off. If you live by yourself in the middle of nowhere go with the 00 buckshot. I’ve cleanly taken a few whitetail deer (another thin skinned 150 - 250 lb animal just like the one trying to break into your house) with this load (the #1 buckshot) out to 40 yards. I could only imagine the damage that could be done at 10 ft.
Some people mention the long gun being cumbersome for home defense. Another argument is that since a shotgun is so long that an intruder can actually wrestle it away from you, whereas a handgun can be held close to the body and not taken away as easily. This is bullshit. The key word here is “defense.” If you (and your family if you have one) are locked in the bedroom of your house and an intruder tries to enter the bedroom, there should be absolutely no possible way for him to take a shotgun from you. You simply have it pointed toward the doorway and when the bad guy comes through you take him out. This is a defensive situation and in my opinion there is nothing better than a shotgun for this application.
Now if you are doing sneaking around hallways or clearing out an office building that is a different situation. It is now an offensive tactic and there is a better chance of an intruder stripping away a long weapon from an untrained individual.
One additional comment about a pistol (either a revolver or semi-auto) for home defense. Yes you only have one bullet coming out and it is much harder to hit the target, but to me that’s not the biggest issue. My concern is that in a highly stressful situation one tends to grip the hell out of a pistol (or whatever they are holding in their hand). Unless the grip of the pistol is evenly placed between the two meaty parts of your palm (I don’t know the medical terms but one is at the base of your thumb and the other is the base of your pinky finger) this tight grip will cause the pistol and hence the barrel to turn slightly in one’s hand.
Those with a pistol at home try it. Makes it hard to hit a person sized target at even a few feet. This may be the reason you see so many policeman miss their targets at point blank range. It’s easy to hit targets in a stress free environment, but try it when your life is in danger.
Alot of good advice here…I’ll put my vote in for a shotgun. Another thing is
to learn tactical “point shooting”, which is very important,especailly with handguns, but shotguns just the same. Most altercations are nothing like a shooting range…and who wants to try and site a gun in the dark with an adrenaline rush?
In point shooting the gun is an extension of you, like pointing your finger at someone. You would be suprised at how accurate you can become without sites.
12g Semi-automatic. Under stress you might forget to chamber a round.
It’s not going to be like a movie where the bad guy sees you chamber a round like Arrrrrrnold. So get a semi and have one in the tube with the safety on. (Please don’t flame)
If you want the “scare effect” and target acquisition help get an after market laser sight. A laser sweeping through your bedroom door has an effect.
Use 00 buck shot if surrounding area is clear. Something smaller if you have close neighbors.
Please take a Personal Protection or Home
Defense course from a NRA instructor. They are widely avaible.
Remington 870 Express. Wal-Mart has them for about 230 dollars or so. They are easy to use, but take a little time to loosen up. I think Federal and Remington make reduced-recoil loads specifically for home-defense.
It is usually cheaper to get a good revolver, rather than a good semi-auto. Most bargain autos fail just when you need them, or so I have heard.
A .357 is probably your best bet. A few years ago, Guns&Ammo magazine had a list of the best ammo for one-shot stops. I think the .40 S&W was the best, but the .357 had like a 98% rating or something. If I remember right, the plain 125 grain JHP is the most effective load. If I can find that issue, I’ll post again with the details.
As for training, at the very least a Hunters Safety Course should show you the basics of safe gun handling. It will probably be easier to find one of these courses. An NRA Home Defense course would be awesome, though.
[quote]dastang21 wrote:
You can’t beat a Desert Eagle!!! Just the sight of one will make someone stop and cry for mercy!!! Go for the gold plated one just to make sure they see it at night!!!
Dastang[/quote]
Did you mean the tiger stripe one?
Has anyone else here fired a .50 AE Desert Eagle before? A local firearms dealer around here has an indoor range, and pistols for rent. Among them for rent: .50 DE, .500 S&W, .454 Raging Bull, and .480 Ruger. None of which are anywhere near suitable for home defense, unless you live in the boonies and are worried about an 800 lb grizzly bear intruder.
Anyway, you might be able to find a place where you can try a few guns before you buy.
