Forgot to mention that type of conditioning I was doing helped alot with rehab. (Knee and shoulders)
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
The word āprincipleā does not mean what you think it means, OP (and other posters in here).[/quote]
Yeah there seems to be a bit of language barrier happening here. People are giving you principles, but I think what you really meant to ask for were like specific methods.
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
The word āprincipleā does not mean what you think it means, OP (and other posters in here).[/quote]
Yeah there seems to be a bit of language barrier happening here. People are giving you principles, but I think what you really meant to ask for were like specific methods.[/quote]
Oh yes, my bad!
If i understand that you are looking for I would read the first few pages of The Westside Method Thread - Powerlifting & Strength Sports - Forums - T Nation
I would suggest also looking through different programs and seeing what you think, and what others think, are the most important aspects of them. Shieko, smolov, westside, juggernaut, 5/3/1, etc for powerlifting
read up on what the bodybuilders are doing, except for the magazine non-sense, but I think you already know that.
I think the biggest thing that would be interesting to me is if you programmed the recovery properly, and hit goals for each thing. If you made up some kind of block periodization for this system you are making that included powerlifting, strongman, gymnastics (something Iām not familiar with that does strike my interest) I think that would be a pretty good idea.
[quote]VTTrainer wrote:
If i understand that you are looking for I would read the first few pages of The Westside Method Thread - Powerlifting & Strength Sports - Forums - T Nation
I would suggest also looking through different programs and seeing what you think, and what others think, are the most important aspects of them. Shieko, smolov, westside, juggernaut, 5/3/1, etc for powerlifting
read up on what the bodybuilders are doing, except for the magazine non-sense, but I think you already know that.
I think the biggest thing that would be interesting to me is if you programmed the recovery properly, and hit goals for each thing. If you made up some kind of block periodization for this system you are making that included powerlifting, strongman, gymnastics (something Iām not familiar with that does strike my interest) I think that would be a pretty good idea. [/quote]
First thanx for respons and that link. Of course I know all these powerlifting programs/training protocols, I am more into your personal experience what brought you the most results and what kind of results. And not only from you but from anybody on this forum.
I study all this issues (powerlifting, weightlifting, gymnastics, crossfit etcā¦) very deeply from Dave Tate and spol. acros Poliquin, Thib., Waterbury, Tsatsouline, DeFranco, Ross, and many more to str. gymnastics experts Sommers and Ido Portal. So I know all kind of training protocols, methods, exercises and diets (Paleo, Low Carb, Velocity diet, Intermittent fasting protocols (warrior, renegade, fast gains etc.)). I also practise all of them. What was useful I take what wasnt I abandoned. But thats for me any my clients.
HERE I TRY TO FIND WHAT WAS USEFUL FOR YOU PERSONALLY.
If someone these days come to me and want big muscles, be lean and also strong and flexible I recommending somthing like:
-bodyweight str. exercises on rings, paralletes and floor 4 - 6 times per week (but some can go up to 12 sessions per week because of very quick regeneration after bw ex.)
-lower body performance training 1-3 times per week (depends on phase of training) including max effort deadlift for triples to singles, ass to grass squats for 5 to 3, box squats for triplets and dynamic effort for power cleans and snatches (so training n.1 might be deadlift dominant, 2nd squat dominant, 3rd olyfting dominant)
-this approach seems to me after eight years of studying and practising the best
When comes professional athlete it alltimes depends on his sport specific training (practise of his sport) but I also include olyfting, powerlifting, gymnastics and sometimes strongmen
The importance of diet that is so crucial to training.
Sagi,
Your ideal methods seem varied, but cover a lot of good bases.
How would you / do program all of that for a training cycle??
2x on the diet being key.
JD
Let me further frame that question,
Program for yourself, or another healthy (lacking physical injury) hard training non-professional athlete. Someone lacking a specific training requirement, rather one with the intention of improving gpp, performance and aesthetics. Someone who could train between 4 and 6 days per week.
I am interested to hear how you think your methods would be applied to your average Joe ( if the above description is of an average training Joe) as they cover so many realms of fitness.
JD
[quote]John.E.D wrote:
Let me further frame that question,
Program for yourself, or another healthy (lacking physical injury) hard training non-professional athlete. Someone lacking a specific training requirement, rather one with the intention of improving gpp, performance and aesthetics. Someone who could train between 4 and 6 days per week.
I am interested to hear how you think your methods would be applied to your average Joe ( if the above description is of an average training Joe) as they cover so many realms of fitness.
JD[/quote]
Important to say is that not in every program for every Joe must be included every str. sport training methods, for example:
- training for beginner Joe with little time and equipment:
5x per week BW gymnastics training at home (need only parallettes (pushup handles) and wall)
1x lower body at gym (ATG squats, deadlifts, cleans)
2)advanced Joe with normal time for gym:
2-3x per week lower body (squat dominant, deadlift dominant, olift dominant days)
3-4x per week upper body (benchpress, pushpress, rings, bar and parallettes gymnastics)
3x per week metcons
-that all in 5 to 6 training days
3)performance geek with no social life (like me)
two times per day training:
MO: 1) clean and var. 2) Deadlift and var. + lower body metcon
TU: 1) upper body pressing + rings 2) Parralletes + lower body metcon
WE: 1) Squat and var. 2) strongmen training
TH: 1) upper body pressing + rings 2) boxing + yoga
FR: 1) Snatch and clean 2) Deadlift + squat
SAT: 1) Running for distance + hill sprints 2) fullbody metcon
SUN: 1) Loaded stretching + rings, parallettes, bar technique 2) high reps whole body training
I train like this for month without rest and I am neither geneticly gifted nor on steroids. I eat protein on breakfast, lunch rice,chicken,eggs and veggies, periworkout protocols and in the evening after 4 hours training per day I eat three big meals in 4 hours. AMEN
Donāt get caught in the 7 day trap. Play around with training frequency. As you get stronger and the intensity increases spread the days between muscle groups to 10-14 days. Also, you are only as strong as your weakest link. For me that means a lot of unilateral work like lunges and dumbbells.
A lot of trainees are weak on there non dominant side. Ex. Righthanded people have a weaker left arm. Keep a training log. Start with a solid program based around squats, deadlifts, benches, and overhead presses. Build on those lifts and use them as benchmarks to gauge progress.
Vary your training speeds when lifting. Bodyweight and additional weight added exercises of all types will get a trainee into shape. Weighted chins,dips, 50lb backpack steep hill sprints for conditioning.
Agree that squats and deadlifts form the core strength,just cant beat the classic staple moves.
Best principle I found was be open to trying new programs, record progress religiously in my training journal, isolate the most effective programs for me personally, and manipulate the variables in those effective programs to fit my goals at the time. For example reducing rest periods to help with fat burning or rest pause between reps(cluster training) so I can use more resistance than normal for the same # of reps and gain strength.
Looks like ur reading from the best already!
My fav pet programs are the 1-6,Advanced GVT, 10X1, Westside Max day/Speed day split, 6-12-25, Coach Thibs HSS100, 5/4/3/2/1, 5X5,
Using bands and chains has made all the difference in the worldā¦
Try not to shit your pants. Should serve you all your life.
[quote]Sagi wrote:
[quote]VTTrainer wrote:
If i understand that you are looking for I would read the first few pages of The Westside Method Thread - Powerlifting & Strength Sports - Forums - T Nation
I would suggest also looking through different programs and seeing what you think, and what others think, are the most important aspects of them. Shieko, smolov, westside, juggernaut, 5/3/1, etc for powerlifting
read up on what the bodybuilders are doing, except for the magazine non-sense, but I think you already know that.
I think the biggest thing that would be interesting to me is if you programmed the recovery properly, and hit goals for each thing. If you made up some kind of block periodization for this system you are making that included powerlifting, strongman, gymnastics (something Iām not familiar with that does strike my interest) I think that would be a pretty good idea. [/quote]
First thanx for respons and that link. Of course I know all these powerlifting programs/training protocols, I am more into your personal experience what brought you the most results and what kind of results. And not only from you but from anybody on this forum.
I study all this issues (powerlifting, weightlifting, gymnastics, crossfit etcā¦) very deeply from Dave Tate and spol. acros Poliquin, Thib., Waterbury, Tsatsouline, DeFranco, Ross, and many more to str. gymnastics experts Sommers and Ido Portal. So I know all kind of training protocols, methods, exercises and diets (Paleo, Low Carb, Velocity diet, Intermittent fasting protocols (warrior, renegade, fast gains etc.)). I also practise all of them. What was useful I take what wasnt I abandoned. But thats for me any my clients.
HERE I TRY TO FIND WHAT WAS USEFUL FOR YOU PERSONALLY.
If someone these days come to me and want big muscles, be lean and also strong and flexible I recommending somthing like:
-bodyweight str. exercises on rings, paralletes and floor 4 - 6 times per week (but some can go up to 12 sessions per week because of very quick regeneration after bw ex.)
-lower body performance training 1-3 times per week (depends on phase of training) including max effort deadlift for triples to singles, ass to grass squats for 5 to 3, box squats for triplets and dynamic effort for power cleans and snatches (so training n.1 might be deadlift dominant, 2nd squat dominant, 3rd olyfting dominant)
-this approach seems to me after eight years of studying and practising the best
When comes professional athlete it alltimes depends on his sport specific training (practise of his sport) but I also include olyfting, powerlifting, gymnastics and sometimes strongmen
[/quote]
Sagi - this is amazing. I love this project and will be following along. Iām looking for EXACTLY this as Iāve also been āmix and matchingā various training methods. Thereās tremendous entertainment value but I also hope some synergistic benefits to body comp.
In fact, the stuff you cited (from powerlifting, IF diet, gymasntic rings etc.) is pretty much excatly what Iām doing right now. I find that āovertrainingā is real as Iāve been doing CTās current ramp/cluster/HDL lift followed by maybe 1-2 hours of just endless sets of ring work. By ring work I mean chins and dips and flyes, and āeasier holdsā like tucked front lever, partial iron crosses, etc.
My body comp is good as Iāve hit a record in leanness. My joints have actually ached for the first time so thats a negative sign. Also my mental/emotional functioning has been disturbed (depression, sleep issues) but Iāve also been chalked up on pre-workouts and coffee so maybe teh stims have a big effect. I canāt really speak for muscle gains because lets be honest, acutal muscle tissue accrual is small anyways and most people just āfeelā bigger because theyāve carbed up or eaten more fats.
WIth that said, my ādensityā and vascularity have improved so iām excited. Strength is āslowlyā creeping up but its a moving target and not my primary emphasis.
So in short, Iām going to try to learn from you and see how youāve integrated these methods together. Train 6 days a week, each workout goes from barbell ā gymnastic ā bodyweight? And also, where are the upper body barbell pressing movements in the template above?
Also, curious, but do you think what youāre doing is more to make training āmore funā than it is acutally āmore effectiveā from a body comp perspective? I look around and see that an intermittent fasting diet, focused on high protein and fibrous veggie carbohydrate with maybe 3-4x a week of basic HARD barbell training will get you nearly optimal aesthetic results. Everything else has more of a performance bent but I wonder if the performance aspect of it can acutally lead to BETTER aesthetic/visual results.
Also, the 6-12 days for upperbody ring work (hypertrophy) is AMAZING. Exactly what I needed to hear. I find myself recovering very quickly after bodyweight work so anything to justify frequent (borderline 2x a day ring training) and high volume and results producing, Iām going for it.
Thanks for reading
Iām currently using an Andy Bolton training style for a few reasons.
I injured my knee badly and had to stop squatting and deadlifting for a while. Then when I was able to train legs again I knew I would have to start light and work my way up back up slowly so as not to re injure it.
I am also in my 40ās so training to maximum too often can play havoc with my joints.
This is what the training approach looks like. Each cycle is in a block of 6-8 weeks. The cycle can go longer then this but this is how Iām doing it at the moment as I need to back off after this period of time.
Each week I ramp up to a given weight for 5 reps. The follow week I add 5 kilograms to the bar and so on. Once I get to the 7th (or 9th week depending on length of cycle) I simply go back to what I did at the 2nd week and start over etcā¦ This acts similar to a deload .
You donāt always have to stick to 5 reps. In fact I make my best gains with triples but at the moment injury prevention is my main focus. Also you donāt have to do only 1 top set. If feeling extra strong you can go for another top set. Bolton says the lighter weeks work well if you are explosive. I find itās also a good time to fine tune form.
This is how it looks for Deadlift:
Week 1. 175kg x5
Week 2. 180kg x5
Week 3. 185kg x5
Week 4. 190kg x5
Week 5. 195kg x5
Week 6. 200kg x5 I may only get 3 but thatās fine. I can either try again next week or start a new cycle.
Week 7. 180kg x5
Andy Bolton likes to squat and deadlift on the same day and I have been doing that as well and find it works well. Added assistance work is leg press although I prefer to do more squatting, Romanian Deadlifts and some abs work such as hanging leg raises and slow crunches with a pause.
My best lession:
Train off of prelipins table.
1 Like
[quote]arramzy wrote:
My best lession:
Train off of prelipins table.[/quote]
Do you use it multiple times a week for the same lift or once a week per lift or have you done both?
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
[quote]Sagi wrote:
[quote]VTTrainer wrote:
If i understand that you are looking for I would read the first few pages of http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/the_westside_method_thread
I would suggest also looking through different programs and seeing what you think, and what others think, are the most important aspects of them. Shieko, smolov, westside, juggernaut, 5/3/1, etc for powerlifting
read up on what the bodybuilders are doing, except for the magazine non-sense, but I think you already know that.
I think the biggest thing that would be interesting to me is if you programmed the recovery properly, and hit goals for each thing. If you made up some kind of block periodization for this system you are making that included powerlifting, strongman, gymnastics (something Iām not familiar with that does strike my interest) I think that would be a pretty good idea. [/quote]
First thanx for respons and that link. Of course I know all these powerlifting programs/training protocols, I am more into your personal experience what brought you the most results and what kind of results. And not only from you but from anybody on this forum.
I study all this issues (powerlifting, weightlifting, gymnastics, crossfit etcā¦) very deeply from Dave Tate and spol. acros Poliquin, Thib., Waterbury, Tsatsouline, DeFranco, Ross, and many more to str. gymnastics experts Sommers and Ido Portal. So I know all kind of training protocols, methods, exercises and diets (Paleo, Low Carb, Velocity diet, Intermittent fasting protocols (warrior, renegade, fast gains etc.)). I also practise all of them. What was useful I take what wasnt I abandoned. But thats for me any my clients.
HERE I TRY TO FIND WHAT WAS USEFUL FOR YOU PERSONALLY.
If someone these days come to me and want big muscles, be lean and also strong and flexible I recommending somthing like:
-bodyweight str. exercises on rings, paralletes and floor 4 - 6 times per week (but some can go up to 12 sessions per week because of very quick regeneration after bw ex.)
-lower body performance training 1-3 times per week (depends on phase of training) including max effort deadlift for triples to singles, ass to grass squats for 5 to 3, box squats for triplets and dynamic effort for power cleans and snatches (so training n.1 might be deadlift dominant, 2nd squat dominant, 3rd olyfting dominant)
-this approach seems to me after eight years of studying and practising the best
When comes professional athlete it alltimes depends on his sport specific training (practise of his sport) but I also include olyfting, powerlifting, gymnastics and sometimes strongmen
[/quote]
Sagi - this is amazing. I love this project and will be following along. Iām looking for EXACTLY this as Iāve also been āmix and matchingā various training methods. Thereās tremendous entertainment value but I also hope some synergistic benefits to body comp.
In fact, the stuff you cited (from powerlifting, IF diet, gymasntic rings etc.) is pretty much excatly what Iām doing right now. I find that āovertrainingā is real as Iāve been doing CTās current ramp/cluster/HDL lift followed by maybe 1-2 hours of just endless sets of ring work. By ring work I mean chins and dips and flyes, and āeasier holdsā like tucked front lever, partial iron crosses, etc.
My body comp is good as Iāve hit a record in leanness. My joints have actually ached for the first time so thats a negative sign. Also my mental/emotional functioning has been disturbed (depression, sleep issues) but Iāve also been chalked up on pre-workouts and coffee so maybe teh stims have a big effect. I canāt really speak for muscle gains because lets be honest, acutal muscle tissue accrual is small anyways and most people just āfeelā bigger because theyāve carbed up or eaten more fats.
WIth that said, my ādensityā and vascularity have improved so iām excited. Strength is āslowlyā creeping up but its a moving target and not my primary emphasis.
So in short, Iām going to try to learn from you and see how youāve integrated these methods together. Train 6 days a week, each workout goes from barbell ā gymnastic ā bodyweight? And also, where are the upper body barbell pressing movements in the template above?
Also, curious, but do you think what youāre doing is more to make training āmore funā than it is acutally āmore effectiveā from a body comp perspective? I look around and see that an intermittent fasting diet, focused on high protein and fibrous veggie carbohydrate with maybe 3-4x a week of basic HARD barbell training will get you nearly optimal aesthetic results. Everything else has more of a performance bent but I wonder if the performance aspect of it can acutally lead to BETTER aesthetic/visual results.
Also, the 6-12 days for upperbody ring work (hypertrophy) is AMAZING. Exactly what I needed to hear. I find myself recovering very quickly after bodyweight work so anything to justify frequent (borderline 2x a day ring training) and high volume and results producing, Iām going for it.
Thanks for reading [/quote]
To put it more clear here is something I tried to and what I learn and also want I want to try now:
- During April and May 2012 I was only doing Rings work because I want to achieve some higher level positions (full front and back lever and transition betweeen them, crossfit muscleup, one foot bent arm maltese, bent arm iron cross 3/4, roll forward, HSPUs, shoulderstand) - before this period I was able only to do lighet variations of front and back lever.
The result in performance was following:
During this period I dont do any weighted training, and NO training for lower body. I also didnt do anything for hypetrophy - only single reps / holds and learnig of technique.
Even that I gain some muscles but also some fat.
- After that for three weeks I did just some occasionaly lower body trainings and then for around five weeks I was doing what I called performance training 1.0 what is in fact combination of ramping, complexes, supersets, with little to no rest. Using Upper/Lower body splits, 3 reps on big ex. (squat, benchpress, pushpres, not doing deadlift and cleans) and 6-8 on some additional ex. and some pumping and working on gymnastics on floor (L-sit, bent arm planche, V-sit, Tuck Planche, handstand, headstand etc.)
results:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/305523_4397192021109_302812871_n.jpg
+3kg of lean muscles -5kg of fat
- Then for around two months I was filming video from first post and using for that Performance training 3.0 - I was:
- benching 3x per week, squatting 1x per week, deadlifting 3x per week, pushpressing 1x per week, cleaning 3x per week,
-I also was doing something like HDL what comes from crossfit training (1 to 5 reps on signal of every minute with weight of around 70-80 percents of 1RM for 3 to 5 sets) for clean var. and deadlift and thrusters
-rings training 2x per week focus on maintaining skills
-floor gymnastics (or yoga) 2-3x per week (working on handstands and hspus)
-doing crossfit wods for time 2-3x per week
-some additional biceps and abs training and also training of levers on bars, dips and chinups and lately weighted variations to max
-1-2x per week strongman training (tire flipping, sledgehammer strikes, prowler pushin, pulling etc)
-1-2x per week running + hill sprints
-some occasional weighted stretching and metcons from crossfit
by this training I achieve
- 3x bodyweight deadlift (even that I was deadlifting only for three months in 2012, one in april a two in July/August and my deadlift personal best two years ago was around 2.6x bodyweight)
-3x bodyweight box squat (box squatting for first time in my life)
-2x bodyweight ass to grass squat (atg squating first time in my life)
-1.4x bodyweight hang power clean (training clean only for two months this year)
-60kg(135 lbs) weighted pullup, 65kg (146 lbs) chinup (and 4 reps with 40kg (90 lbs)), 65kg (146 lbs) dips (training it first time in my life for one month)
-front lever muscleup to bent arm maltese (full) to L-Sit to shoulder piked hold to front lever to back lever (training easier variations and this train for only three workouts but it came from nowhere)
So to sum up by far I can say that for increasing gymnastics skills is better to focus on gymnastics training only full time.
To get very lean (on the photo I had 6 percents bodyfat without any diet) 5x per week high intensity, high density training for strength is result
To get best performance- focusing on elements you want to improve but include also other principles for overall gains (including gymnastics when you are working on big lifts / including sprints and running when you are into adding muscle mass)
Righ now I am having three weeks deload without training (because by time I was filming performance training 3.0 video I was training to 5 hours per day (and also eating warrior diet style))
And after that I for first time will try very powerful gymnastics hypetrophy training (to this point I was doing it for performance) and also lower body strength hyperthrophy protocol - very excited about it. It is based on very powerful informations from some scientific studies and informations from gymnastics coaches.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]arramzy wrote:
My best lession:
Train off of prelipins table.[/quote]
Do you use it multiple times a week for the same lift or once a week per lift or have you done both?[/quote]
The thing with prelipins is that there is a reasonable range in what is āacceptableā.
For example, doing 4x2 with 95% would techinically fall into prelipins, but would kill you. Meanwhile, 65% for 6x3 would also fit and would be terribly easy.
So in my opinion, most ways you could fit into prelipin are viable and have their placeā¦ Other than the 90%+. Most are surprised, but I think a powerlifter needs to go over 90% at competitions, once 4 weeks out from competition, and if not competiting once every ~8 weeks.
So the golden range of prelipins is what you find in āsheikoā (I have said it a million times, there is no such thing as training sheikoā¦ He was a coach who doesnāt coach anymore ergo you donāt train sheiko. He was not a programmer).
Anyways:
80% 5-6x2-3 is the gold
70% 4-6x3-5 also excellent
75% 4-6x3-4 I find 75% for 5ās is too many
85% 3x2 - a good one to use every 2-4 weeks depending upon your need.
65% 4x6 or 5x5 - good for after a hard week prior
Now as far as frequency, that depends on you and the workouts you are designing.
I find a good place to start people without much experience is with a slightly conservative max for calculations and 3 bench per week, 2 squat per week, and 1.5 deadlift per week.
Within 2 months a good point is 4 bench/weel, 3 squat/week, and 2 deadlift/week. This is assuming that the workouts come from my suggestions above. Most programs are waved in 4 weeks with mounted intensity week 2, mounted volume+intensity week 3, and a decrease in week 4. Then restart and move forward.
For example, monday AM squat workout is almost always:
Week 1: 80% 5-6x3
Week 2: 80% +5-10kg 5-6x2
Week 3: 80% +5-10kg 5-6x3
Week 4: 80% 5-6x2-3 depending upon other factors.
PM me if you want to talk mroe about it.
[quote]Sagi wrote:
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
[quote]Sagi wrote:
[quote]VTTrainer wrote:
If i understand that you are looking for I would read the first few pages of http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/the_westside_method_thread
I would suggest also looking through different programs and seeing what you think, and what others think, are the most important aspects of them. Shieko, smolov, westside, juggernaut, 5/3/1, etc for powerlifting
read up on what the bodybuilders are doing, except for the magazine non-sense, but I think you already know that.
I think the biggest thing that would be interesting to me is if you programmed the recovery properly, and hit goals for each thing. If you made up some kind of block periodization for this system you are making that included powerlifting, strongman, gymnastics (something Iām not familiar with that does strike my interest) I think that would be a pretty good idea. [/quote]
First thanx for respons and that link. Of course I know all these powerlifting programs/training protocols, I am more into your personal experience what brought you the most results and what kind of results. And not only from you but from anybody on this forum.
I study all this issues (powerlifting, weightlifting, gymnastics, crossfit etcā¦) very deeply from Dave Tate and spol. acros Poliquin, Thib., Waterbury, Tsatsouline, DeFranco, Ross, and many more to str. gymnastics experts Sommers and Ido Portal. So I know all kind of training protocols, methods, exercises and diets (Paleo, Low Carb, Velocity diet, Intermittent fasting protocols (warrior, renegade, fast gains etc.)). I also practise all of them. What was useful I take what wasnt I abandoned. But thats for me any my clients.
HERE I TRY TO FIND WHAT WAS USEFUL FOR YOU PERSONALLY.
If someone these days come to me and want big muscles, be lean and also strong and flexible I recommending somthing like:
-bodyweight str. exercises on rings, paralletes and floor 4 - 6 times per week (but some can go up to 12 sessions per week because of very quick regeneration after bw ex.)
-lower body performance training 1-3 times per week (depends on phase of training) including max effort deadlift for triples to singles, ass to grass squats for 5 to 3, box squats for triplets and dynamic effort for power cleans and snatches (so training n.1 might be deadlift dominant, 2nd squat dominant, 3rd olyfting dominant)
-this approach seems to me after eight years of studying and practising the best
When comes professional athlete it alltimes depends on his sport specific training (practise of his sport) but I also include olyfting, powerlifting, gymnastics and sometimes strongmen
[/quote]
Sagi - this is amazing. I love this project and will be following along. Iām looking for EXACTLY this as Iāve also been āmix and matchingā various training methods. Thereās tremendous entertainment value but I also hope some synergistic benefits to body comp.
In fact, the stuff you cited (from powerlifting, IF diet, gymasntic rings etc.) is pretty much excatly what Iām doing right now. I find that āovertrainingā is real as Iāve been doing CTās current ramp/cluster/HDL lift followed by maybe 1-2 hours of just endless sets of ring work. By ring work I mean chins and dips and flyes, and āeasier holdsā like tucked front lever, partial iron crosses, etc.
My body comp is good as Iāve hit a record in leanness. My joints have actually ached for the first time so thats a negative sign. Also my mental/emotional functioning has been disturbed (depression, sleep issues) but Iāve also been chalked up on pre-workouts and coffee so maybe teh stims have a big effect. I canāt really speak for muscle gains because lets be honest, acutal muscle tissue accrual is small anyways and most people just āfeelā bigger because theyāve carbed up or eaten more fats.
WIth that said, my ādensityā and vascularity have improved so iām excited. Strength is āslowlyā creeping up but its a moving target and not my primary emphasis.
So in short, Iām going to try to learn from you and see how youāve integrated these methods together. Train 6 days a week, each workout goes from barbell ā gymnastic ā bodyweight? And also, where are the upper body barbell pressing movements in the template above?
Also, curious, but do you think what youāre doing is more to make training āmore funā than it is acutally āmore effectiveā from a body comp perspective? I look around and see that an intermittent fasting diet, focused on high protein and fibrous veggie carbohydrate with maybe 3-4x a week of basic HARD barbell training will get you nearly optimal aesthetic results. Everything else has more of a performance bent but I wonder if the performance aspect of it can acutally lead to BETTER aesthetic/visual results.
Also, the 6-12 days for upperbody ring work (hypertrophy) is AMAZING. Exactly what I needed to hear. I find myself recovering very quickly after bodyweight work so anything to justify frequent (borderline 2x a day ring training) and high volume and results producing, Iām going for it.
Thanks for reading [/quote]
To put it more clear here is something I tried to and what I learn and also want I want to try now:
- During April and May 2012 I was only doing Rings work because I want to achieve some higher level positions (full front and back lever and transition betweeen them, crossfit muscleup, one foot bent arm maltese, bent arm iron cross 3/4, roll forward, HSPUs, shoulderstand) - before this period I was able only to do lighet variations of front and back lever.
The result in performance was following:
During this period I dont do any weighted training, and NO training for lower body. I also didnt do anything for hypetrophy - only single reps / holds and learnig of technique.
Even that I gain some muscles but also some fat.
- After that for three weeks I did just some occasionaly lower body trainings and then for around five weeks I was doing what I called performance training 1.0 what is in fact combination of ramping, complexes, supersets, with little to no rest. Using Upper/Lower body splits, 3 reps on big ex. (squat, benchpress, pushpres, not doing deadlift and cleans) and 6-8 on some additional ex. and some pumping and working on gymnastics on floor (L-sit, bent arm planche, V-sit, Tuck Planche, handstand, headstand etc.)
results:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/305523_4397192021109_302812871_n.jpg
+3kg of lean muscles -5kg of fat
- Then for around two months I was filming video from first post and using for that Performance training 3.0 - I was:
- benching 3x per week, squatting 1x per week, deadlifting 3x per week, pushpressing 1x per week, cleaning 3x per week,
-I also was doing something like HDL what comes from crossfit training (1 to 5 reps on signal of every minute with weight of around 70-80 percents of 1RM for 3 to 5 sets) for clean var. and deadlift and thrusters
-rings training 2x per week focus on maintaining skills
-floor gymnastics (or yoga) 2-3x per week (working on handstands and hspus)
-doing crossfit wods for time 2-3x per week
-some additional biceps and abs training and also training of levers on bars, dips and chinups and lately weighted variations to max
-1-2x per week strongman training (tire flipping, sledgehammer strikes, prowler pushin, pulling etc)
-1-2x per week running + hill sprints
-some occasional weighted stretching and metcons from crossfit
by this training I achieve
- 3x bodyweight deadlift (even that I was deadlifting only for three months in 2012, one in april a two in July/August and my deadlift personal best two years ago was around 2.6x bodyweight)
-3x bodyweight box squat (box squatting for first time in my life)
-2x bodyweight ass to grass squat (atg squating first time in my life)
-1.4x bodyweight hang power clean (training clean only for two months this year)
-60kg(135 lbs) weighted pullup, 65kg (146 lbs) chinup (and 4 reps with 40kg (90 lbs)), 65kg (146 lbs) dips (training it first time in my life for one month)
-front lever muscleup to bent arm maltese (full) to L-Sit to shoulder piked hold to front lever to back lever (training easier variations and this train for only three workouts but it came from nowhere)
So to sum up by far I can say that for increasing gymnastics skills is better to focus on gymnastics training only full time.
To get very lean (on the photo I had 6 percents bodyfat without any diet) 5x per week high intensity, high density training for strength is result
To get best performance- focusing on elements you want to improve but include also other principles for overall gains (including gymnastics when you are working on big lifts / including sprints and running when you are into adding muscle mass)
Righ now I am having three weeks deload without training (because by time I was filming performance training 3.0 video I was training to 5 hours per day (and also eating warrior diet style))
And after that I for first time will try very powerful gymnastics hypetrophy training (to this point I was doing it for performance) and also lower body strength hyperthrophy protocol - very excited about it. It is based on very powerful informations from some scientific studies and informations from gymnastics coaches.[/quote]
Great stuff Sagi, impressive performance/skills. Thanks for the write-up. Helped clear some things up for me (i.e. Iām going for leanness/body comp more so than gymnastic skills).
But using āpoewrful gymnastics hypertrophy trainingā peaked my interest. What are you doing for this?