I find injecting twice a week is easier than trying to remember swallowing pills twice a day.
I find injecting twice a week is easier than trying to remember swallowing pills twice a day.
If OP is talking about cycles (so not TRT) then the difference is
If you’re looking just for TRT, scrotal cream is rather popular. But I believe it’s applied twice daily, and you’ve gotten keep your ball bag smooth year round. I’m too lazy for that, rather pin twice a week. Oh, and I had EXTREME phobia of needles for 30 years. Frequent injections actually helps with phobia, it’s essentially a form of CBT.
I’ve never understood this phobia surrounding needles. So many kids within my cohort back in HS would talk about how they hated getting vaccinated due to needles, they’d squirm/visibly seem distressed if a film on TV would show IV drug use/needles as a generalisation.
I’m sitting back thinking “haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa”.
I don’t know where mine came from. Never a bad experience to point back on. For me, I had this image in my head of a needle putting a dent in my skin before it pierced through, and then making a pop as it went through the skin. It always just had me worked up and terrified. Watching people on TV get shots made me squirm. I had to listen to music and BLAST it every time I needed a vaccination.
Running my first cycle i was terrified. My wife would laugh at me and call me a little bitch, before she’d pin my glute. I got over it quickly, and slowly began to crave it (well the effects).
I started subq as I was afraid of IM. Now pinning delts. I would be freeked out if I had to do an IV shot in myself.
Let me save you the time. Needles or nothing. Sub Q is virtually painless and easy
I tried sub Q when going from my blast to cruise dose and got a painful lump that lasted almost a week. I since went back to IM with no problems.
It’s also inferior to IM. It’s definitely better than not injecting testosterone but IM is superior (and also painless if you use the same insulin syringes you’re using for sub-q). I did sub-q for a long time.
I don’t believe there is data to support the notion that SQ is inferior to IM
SQ injections tend to prolong the HL of injectable T, lower peak, higher nadir (cavg probably very similar). I wasn’t a fan of SQ T as it’d leave long lasting knots around the site of injection. In terms of mere replacement, SQ shots could supposedly provide more hormonal stability, the absence of a supraphysiologic peak would make excess erythrocytosis less likely in prone individuals (typically the elderly/those with predisposition). One can only donate/opt for therapeutic phlebotomy until their ferritin/iron stores tank, after which you’ll feel rather sluggish. Iron deficiency absent of anaemia can still induce clinical symptomatology.
There is a marketed formulation of testosterone out on the market (xyosted I believe) that has been designed specifically for sub Q injection. I believe the product is a waste of time, it’s an autojector (branded xyosted) and would theoretically be far more expensive to acquire compared to a proportional dose of generic testosterone cypionate/enanthate. If they made xyosted generic and marketed it in Australia I’d most certainly be willing to give it a go
I already pay like 35$ for 3ml of pharm grade T (when you’re a student on a budget this can be irritating)… Still better than the 90$/3ml I had to pay when testosterone enanthate was “out”.
It depends on your goals. For example, in my case I get low E2 symptoms on IM after a while (all other variables constant) very similar to crashed E2 (cannot retain water, no pumps, depression, joint pains). On SubQ those symptoms are completely alleviated. I have yet to do side by side bloods to test, but it looks like I aromatise very poorly on IM. ( I also have a very low natural BF% not sure if this plays a part on why this is so)
So for me, SubQ is superior. There may be plenty of other reasons why one or the other is better suited to a particular individual.
If your goal is to feel like you’re on testosterone than IM is superior. If you want to be on testosterone but not feel like you are then sub-q is your best bet. Sub-q feels like you’re taking a time release version of an already time release medication. Even when my T levels were at 2000 constantly on sub-q I didn’t feel anything. I went 6 months thinking I must be doing something wrong until I got lab results back. I went another 4-6 months before switching to IM and it’s much better for wellbeing. If there wasn’t 50 other people who have all said the same thing after switching to IM I might think it was just my opinion.
I think you’re experience is purely anecdotal, though I could be wrong. According to the clinical data that exists, sub Q t is generally just as effective at warding off symptoms of hypogonadism.
Not sure if a difference exists when crossing over into pharmacological territory… No data on that
My experience has pretty much mirrored yours. I ‘notice’ the effects of T more with IM
@dextermorgan and @unreal24278 this is a very interesting discussion. My doc in the UK, who is a top level TRT specialist, believes massively in sub q daily pinning for the most stable T levels requiring minimal dosages. I for example had 30% over the high normal range with only 95mg a week of test Cyp and 1/4 aromasin (6.25mg) every 3 days.
He believes it is the best option for regular stable levels. Daily pinning is a bit of a pain, but my TRT protocol once dialled in has been very consistent.
One thing I have noticed on rare occasion is an immense sense of well-being or an immense feeling of gratefulness for what I have in life. This hasn’t happened often (maybe 6 or 7 times in the last 9 months) but when it does happen, man it feels great. I wish it could happen more often. It is as if a cloud of depression has been completely lifted and life is great.
I am two weeks into my first blast and this feeling hasn’t yet happened and this is with 200mg a week sub q (split in daily injections) and 300mg weekly IM (blasted every 3 days). I am a little disappointed by that tbh.
That sense of well-being is absolutely amazing, although it has been allusive and rare for me.
Yes, cycles. This is enough to not make me want to take pills. I’ve had heartburn issues in the past, not looking for any to return. Thanks for this info!
Dr Crisler was big into sub-q. Mine was 100+% over the high normal range doing 185mg sub-q and didn’t feel anything great. Same dose IM has me feeling amazing erry day. I switched from sub-q to IM because of the threads stating how much better IM made them feel at the same dosage.
Well… that’s enough reason for me to try it once back on my TRT.
Dr Crisler was the main reason why I advocated with my endocrinologist to put me on Xyosted 100 mg a week. Along with the book, “Natural Versus Testosterone Therapy” by Lee Myers & “The Definitive Testosterone Replacement Therapy Manual” by Jay Campbell. I thought they made sense by suggesting subQ being the best because they argue it keeps your E2 levels in check better, more naturally mimics your own body’s testosterone & avoids having a lifetime of holes in your muscles. But my main goal is to feel better! I’m 44 years old & have been on Xyosted for 3 shots & have another due tomorrow so that will be 4 weeks. I haven’t noticed any difference of improvement in my depression, well being, energy, sleep or sexual function. I can’t tell that I’ve even taken anything yet. Perhaps it’s too early to tell but now I’m second guessing myself that I should have gone with testosterone cypionate IM after reading your posts. You mentioned after reading more than 50 different posts on people describing the same situation of not feeling much of anything using subQ T versus feeling amazing via IM T. Were all of the posts you mentioned here on T-nation or a combination of sites? I totally believe you but would like to read some more for myself, if you can point me in the right direction, I sure would appreciate it. Do you take testosterone cypionate IM? Do you mind sharing what dose you take & how often & what type of Dr do you see for yours? I was down to 174 ng/ml total T and 3.4 pg/ml free T and have suffered from really bad depression, gained a lot of weight despite eating healthy & working out 5x per week both with weights & cardio & feel so lathargic. I’ve done a tremendous amount of research but am a newbie to TRT injections so any advice and feedback would be appreciated.
TRT takes quite a while before you experience the real big changes so don’t second guess yourself especially this early in the game. There’s many on sub-q that are very happy with TRT but some (like me) don’t get the full effect that I get with IM.
I’m on 200mg/week IM. I split that up into daily injections but a majority of folks are perfectly fine with twice a week. I started on 220mg/week but was 30 lbs overweight so I felt like shit. Dropped to 100mg/week while simultaneously losing weight. Once I dropped that thirty I started upping my dose by 20mg increments every 2-3 months and honestly didn’t feel TRT until I got to 160mg/week. Once I got to 185mg I really felt it and 200mg has been great (no real difference between 185mg & 200mg).
I suffered from depression my whole life and TRT has completely eliminated it (once dialed in) as well as positively effected many other aspects. It’s the best decision I’ve ever made. My T levels before TRT were much higher than yours so I can imagine it could be life changing for you once you get there.
I don’t know much about Xyosted but the thought of not being able to control things especially in the beginning wouldn’t have been ideal for me. There are a few guys here that insist on starting at 100mg and their heart is in the right place but I personally think 150mg is the ideal starting dosage. A majority of people on TRT go through clinics and most of the clinics start at 200mg cookie cutter dosages and the guys are happy.
I can connect you with my clinic if you’d like. There’s several folks on the forum that use them now. They are extremely laid back. You get 220mg/week to do what you want with and don’t have to worry about losing your prescription for whatever reason. They run $150/month which includes everything (labs, prescription, meds sent to your house every 2 months, syringes, etc). There’s plenty clinics like them but this one I can vouch as being much more laid back. They have quite a few pro bodybuilders as clients. My email is in my bio if you want me to connect you.
Here’s more info on my TRT journey.