[quote]eic wrote:
I didn’t know you were friends with KB, Roger? That guy kicks ass. He keeps it simple and is very generous.[/quote]
Oh yeah, Kelly has helped me out more times than I can count over the years (though this particular post was not directed at me). I’d say he was a major player in shaping my current views on training.
throw some DB Bulgarian Squats in the mix also…get rid of muscle imbalances.
You need 2 things for a big vert. Maximal strength and high rate of force development. So simply getting your 1RM up will improve this. Then you need to be able to move all that strength very fast. The movement with the highest correlation to vertical jump is the power snatch. Just something for you to think about.
never stop jumping in itself though
with all the exercises to improve it, you can get lost and kinda forget how important jumping is on its own
there is a lot of technique (and it’ll improve rate of force and all that jazz too) and its a skill that can definitly be lost if not used
I’m not sure that anyone actually answered your question.
The most applicable squat to the vertical jump is the back squat. It places the most emphasis on the posterior chain along and also has more of a reflexive component than the box squat.
There is no real best squat for improving ones vertical. No matter if Front, back, box, jump or one leg squat: Get those numbers up (with good form of course ATG boy)!
then whe you reached a certain level of relative strength (such as 2xBW in an atg back squat), you can start working on plyometric exercises. this will get you in high gear. And don’t work the accessory work for your squat etc.
Deadlifts will help, too, and they have the advantage of working the same muscles in almost exactly the position you’ll use for a jump.
[quote]rmccart1 wrote:
Deadlifts will help, too, and they have the advantage of working the same muscles in almost exactly the position you’ll use for a jump.[/quote]
I agree…
And here is something for the OP.
Jumping is more of a hip/hamstring effort than a quad effort. Although both are involved in it, as well as the rest of the body.
The reason why Olifters are EXTREMELY good jumpers even though they rarely jump. Thats because of the “snapping” to clean or snatch is basically the same motion involved in a jump.
I would recommend the Snatch or Power Snatch+Overhead Squat, Romanian deadlifts, kettlebell swings, and jumping around too.
[quote]NeoSpartan wrote:
Jumping is more of a hip/hamstring effort than a quad effort.[/quote]
This is wrong. A vertical leap is a glute/quad dominant movement. Which one dominates will depend on one’s structure and muscular balance. Either way, the hamstrings play a minimal role in two footed jumping of any kind. However, don’t ignore them as this will lead to knee problems in the future.
As for why OLY lifters are good leapers, they’re born fast twitch dominant freaks with great nervous systems who also happen to squat between 3-4 times their bodyweight. The olympic lifts themselves have very little to do with it. You could use any explosive movements, even vertical leaps themself, and get the same result provided your strength was in place.
[quote]RJ24 wrote:
NeoSpartan wrote:
Jumping is more of a hip/hamstring effort than a quad effort.
This is wrong. A vertical leap is a glute/quad dominant movement. Which one dominates will depend on one’s structure and muscular balance. Either way, the hamstrings play a minimal role in two footed jumping of any kind. However, don’t ignore them as this will lead to knee problems in the future.
As for why OLY lifters are good leapers, they’re born fast twitch dominant freaks with great nervous systems who also happen to squat between 3-4 times their bodyweight. The olympic lifts themselves have very little to do with it. You could use any explosive movements, even vertical leaps themself, and get the same result provided your strength was in place.
[/quote]
well watch minute 34:20 till 37:00 of the following video and you will see why I said that.
RJ24, you said you know Kelly Baggett. I’m curious, am I correct that he only used the atg back squats when he worked on his vertical jump (as in no other forms of squatting)?
i think you missed the point,thats a broad jump, not a vertical leap, yes they are different
[quote]RJ24 wrote:
…
As for why OLY lifters are good leapers, they’re born fast twitch dominant freaks with great nervous systems who also happen to squat between 3-4 times their bodyweight. The olympic lifts themselves have very little to do with it. …
[/quote]
I think this needs to be said in every thread.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
RJ24 wrote:
…
As for why OLY lifters are good leapers, they’re born fast twitch dominant freaks with great nervous systems who also happen to squat between 3-4 times their bodyweight. The olympic lifts themselves have very little to do with it. …
I think this needs to be said in every thread.
[/quote]
even in the how bench pressing increases your vertical jump thread?
NeoSpartan, I’m not watching all of that but if BrianM (a couple posts down) is right in saying that they’re talking about the broad jump then that would change things. The broad jump is a hip dominant movement, the vertical leap is not for most people.
Arnoud, I do not know if he only used ATG back squats for certain, but I do know that he also likes split squats, deadlifts, and box squats for those whose quads are overpowering. Either way, it is not important what he did. Get strong in any conventional movement, keep structural balance, and practice jumping a lot.
Zap, if only people would listen. Then again, the crowd here at T-Nation isn’t generally the most receptive bunch.
Quite frankly, I think everyone overates the olympic lifts and their contribution to vertical jump. Elite level powerlifters (in the weight classes where they aren’t 400 pound blobs) can jump right with the Oly lifters.
What part of their lifting program do they have in common? They can both squat a shit ton of weight. Vertical jumping is more of a quad/glute effort and I hypothesize that the heavy front squatting component of oly lifting does far more for their vertical jump than the pull phase of a clean or snatch.
Furtermore, I don’t think many of us have anywhere near the coordination and skill to perform an olympic lift with any degree of loading that will increase our base level of strength and rate of force production more than just ME effort squatting/deadlifting + jumping.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
RJ24 wrote:
…
As for why OLY lifters are good leapers, they’re born fast twitch dominant freaks with great nervous systems who also happen to squat between 3-4 times their bodyweight. The olympic lifts themselves have very little to do with it. …
I think this needs to be said in every thread.
even in the how bench pressing increases your vertical jump thread?[/quote]
Even in the Best Rack thread.
As has been said, I think the Olympic lifts do have tremendous carryover to the vertical jump, but unless you’re already an Olympic lifter, and thus already have the technical skills in place, they’re not the most efficient way to increase your vertical jump. If you have no interest in competing in Olympic lifting, your time would probably be better spent performing ME and DE versions of deadlifts, box squats, front squats, and split squats, jumping and sprinting. Elite FTS actually had a great article a few days ago concerning this “The Thinker Discusses Olympic Lifts.”
Also, I don’t really think it’s important whether a jump is hip or quad dominant. I think RJ24 said it best: get strong and maintain appropriate structural balance.
Donut62, can you give a reference to the powerlifters jumping as well as elite olympic lifters?
no disrespect, but with the olympic lifting, theres a widely publiced study…all i’ve ever heard about powerlifting is heresay and i honestly dont believe it (yes i know there are Some, but we arent talking about individuals)
Well Brian, that study you’re quoting is hearsay as well. I’ve seen it being referred to for years, but not once has anyone been able to present a copy of it when asked to. As far as I’m concerned, that study never happened and people should really stop quoting it.